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HomeMy WebLinkAbout01082014_ZBA_TRANSCRIPT Appeal No. 213 ZBA-2 JANUARY 8, 2014 7:00 p.m. REGULAR MEETING TOWN OF MONTVILLE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Montville Town Hall 310 Norwich-New London Turnpike Uncasville, CT 06382 PRESENT: Zoning Board of Appeals John MacNeil, Chairperson Douglas Adams, Regular Member Joe Aquitante, III, Regular Member Ellen Lakowsky, Regular Member Carl Freeman, Seated Alternate Member Attorney Michael Carey, Suisman-Shapiro, representing the Town of Montville Attorney Jon Chase, representing Paul E. Chase Attorney Harry Heller, representing Green Falls Associates, LLC Thomas Sanders, Zoning Enforcement Officer (ZEO), Town of Montville Agnes Miyuki, Recording Secretary Paul E. Chase, Appellant v. Green Falls Associates LLC for property located at: 310 Cherry Lane, Oakdale, Montville, CT (Assessor’s map 53, lot 3) CERTIFICATION OF RECORD This is to certify that the foregoing is true and correct transcript from the electronic sound recording of the Regular Meeting of the Town of Montville Zoning Board of Appeals on Wednesday, January 8, 2014. 25 July 2014 Date Agnes T. Miyuki Minutes Clerk Town of Montville Chairman MacNeil: I hereby call the Montville Zoning Board of Appeals to 1 order at, uh, 7:03 p.m., uh, January 8th, 2014. Um, 2 could I have a roll call please? 3 Board Member Adams: Alright, Doug Adams. Here. 4 Board Member Adams: Joe Aqu… 5 Board Member Aquitante: Aquitante, here. 6 Board Member Adams: Ellen Lakowsky. 7 Board Member Lakowsky: Here. 8 Board Member Adams: John MacNeil. 9 Chairman MacNeil: Here. 10 Board Member Adams: Alternate Carl Freeman. 11 Board Member Freeman: Here. 12 Board Member Adams: Elmer, okay, Wittkofske. Absent. 13 Board Member Adams: Right. 14 Chairman MacNeil: Um -- 15 Board Member Lakowsky: You’ve been in this Town long enough to pronounce 16 those names. (laughing) 17 Chairman MacNeil: Um, just as a note, um, Carl Freeman will be seated 18 tonight. 19 Board Member Adams: Okay. 20 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, uh, New Business. We have two, um, 21 applications that are going to require us to set a public 22 hearing. The first is, uh, Joseph M. Wypianski, Wyps-, 23 am I saying that right? 24 ZEO Mr. Sanders: Wyspianski. 25 Chairman MacNeil: Wyspianski, um, I’ll yield to you for the pronunciation 26 of the names. A request for a 10 yard, 10’ rear yard 27 setback variance of Section 10-A.6.3 for the 28 construction of a garage addition on the property at 8, 29 894-904 Norwich-New London Turnpike (Route 32), 30 Montville, CT As shown on Assessor’s Map 83, uh, 31 Lots 6-000 and 7-000. Um, I guess we should, uh, set a 32 public hearing on our next, um, meeting date which is 33 when, Tom?…It is February 5th. 34 ZEO Mr. Sanders: Yep. 35 Board Member Adams: For the record, I will not be here. 36 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, for the record Doug won’t be here. 37 ZEO Mr. Sanders: (inaudible) 38 Chairman MacNeil: Um, second, um, New Business is, uh, Joseph M. 39 Wyspianski: An application for An Amendment to a 40 Certificate of Location Approval for a Used Car or 41 Used Car Dealership, Used Car Dealer’s and Repairer’s 42 Facility, rather, to be located on the property at 894 to 43 904 Norwich-New London Turnpike (Route 32), 44 Montville, CT as shown on Assessor, as shown on 45 Assessor’s Map 83, Lots 6-000 and 7-000. Um, also, 46 um, like to m-, uh, s-, uh, make a motion that we 47 schedule that hearing for the February 5th. Um, I don’t 48 know that anybody agreed, we didn’t actually make a 49 motion for the first one, um, so, uh, let’s go, uh, let’s, 50 let’s finish the (b). All those in favor of setting a public 51 hearing, uh, for February 5th for, um, application, a n-, a 52 new item, uh, item b, of new business, say aye. 53 Board members: Aye. 54 Chairman MacNeil: Opposed? 55 Chairman MacNeil: So moved. Um, secondly, to go back to (a), um, to set 56 that hearing on the same date, uh, February 4th, 2014. 57 All in favor, say aye. 58 Chairman MacNeil: Aye. 59 Chairman MacNeil: Opposed? So moved. 60 Atty. Carey: Mr. Chairman? 61 Chairman MacNeil: Yes? 62 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 63 Chairman MacNeil: Yes, it was. 64 Unknown Board Member: You said the fourth. 65 Atty. Carey: You said the fourth. 66 Chairman MacNeil: I said fifth, I’m sorry, correction. Just for clarification, 67 they’re both February 5th, 2014. I probably did say the 68 fourth. Um, okay, item 4, Public Hearings, um, Paul E. 69 Chase 213-ZBA-2. An application for an appeal of the 70 decision of the ZEO of the issuance of a Zoning Permit 71 to Green Falls Associates, LLC, for a three-bedroom 72 home on property located at 310 Cherry Lane, Oakdale, 73 Montville, CT. As shown on Assessor’s Map 53, Lot 3. 74 This is a continuation of our last, um, hearing. We left 75 it open, um, so the applicant could, um, uh, submit a 76 drawing, um, and also anybody else could continue to 77 submit information. Do we have, um, anything other 78 than just let the, can the, at this point, just let the 79 applicant to continue his presentation and/or submit any 80 information that he might have. At this time, I’d like to 81 ask the applicant’s representative to come up and, uh, 82 lay it on us. 83 Atty. Chase: Okay, thank you Mr. Chairman, uh, Good Evening, uh, 84 Commission, uh, members. Jon Chase representing 85 Paul E. Chase, the appellant. Um, as, uh, as I recall, uh, 86 although the, uh, hearing was going to be continued 87 initially for a, for a simple housekeeping matter, there 88 was an indication for willingness to keep it open for 89 responses, I suppose, uh, to issues that have been 90 raised, uh, the admonition was that I please not cover 91 ground that’s been covered before and I’ll endeavor to, 92 uh, -- 93 Chairman MacNeil: Please. 94 Atty. Chase: I’ll endeavor to do that. Um, and on that, uh, simple 95 matter of housekeeping, uh, that I’d, uh, initially 96 inquired about, uh, holding the hearing open for -- 97 Chairman MacNeil: I think one of them started out as a map and a certified 98 copy of something. 99 Atty. Chase: Well, it, uh, a, a, a certified copy of a Deed -- 100 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, okay. 101 Atty. Chase: -- rather than a plain copy. 102 Chairman McNeil: Alright. 103 Atty. Chase: -- and so I’m simply going to submit that certified, uh, 104 copy, uh, to the record. It’s, uh, uh, and, and ask that it 105 simply be substituted for the non-certified, uh, copy 106 that’s already been (inaudible). 107 Secondly and, uh, and in an attempt to address, uh, 108 several birds with one stone, uh, so to speak, uh, in 109 order to provide a bit of, uh, structure, I’m going to, uh, 110 go down the list of issues that were raised by Attorney 111 Heller and attempt to respond to them, uh, and cover as 112 much ground as I can, uh, in, in so doing. The, I think, 113 most significant issue raised by Attorney Heller was the 114 contention, uh, that this appeal is fatally flawed, those 115 are his, uh, words for reason of lack of subject matter 116 jurisdiction, uh, on, on, for, for the reason or on the, uh, 117 um, uh, on the grounds that there was “no reason stated 118 in the appeal” and I, uh, countered that, at the time, by, 119 uh, stating that, uh, the, uh, uh, the form, uh, uh, used 120 by the, uh, Commission, used by, uh, Mr. Sanders’ 121 office was, uh, was plainly filled out indicating the 122 reason for, uh, the appeal was that there was an error in 123 an order requirement or decision made by the Zoning 124 Enforcement Officer and that was specifically identified 125 to be the issuance of, of a particular , uh, p ermit. Um, 126 and I think that that covers that ground. However, um, 127 because I suppose a belt and suspenders approach is 128 sometimes, uh, worthwhile, uh, I have, uh, filed, uh, 129 today, um, an amended appeal in this matter, uh, and I 130 have some copies of it, if you, uh, don’t, uh, already, 131 that I’ll just, you know -- 132 Chairman MacNeil: No. 133 Atty. Chase: -- distribute those. I won’t mark it as an exhibit 134 because it’s been filed (inaudible) -- 135 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 136 Atty. Chase: I did provide a copy, I faxed with Harry Heller’s office, 137 uh, this afternoon, uh, of this, uh, document and, uh, it 138 does, uh, you’ll, you’ll see that the amendments are in 139 red ink, which makes it easy to -- 140 Chairman MacNeil: We have copies so, they’re black. 141 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 142 Atty. Chase: Oh, I, I’m sorry. 143 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 144 Atty. Chase: Okay, I, I apologize. But, I’ll, uh -- 145 Atty. Carey: Well, we’ll keep that here (inaudible). 146 Atty. Chase: Fine, and I’ll, I’ll just indicate what the amendments 147 are, uh -- 148 Board Member Adams: Great. 149 Atty. Chase: The, uh, word ‘amended’ appears at the top, uh, now, 150 unlike, uh, at the time of the application, there is an 151 identifying number for the, uh, for this appeal, that’s 152 been added. And, uh, under the area checked 153 concerning the error, uh, the alleged error in the, uh, in 154 an order, requirement, or decision made by the Zoning 155 Enforcement Officer, I’ve added, “in that the ZEO has 156 acted in excess of legal authority in one or more ways 157 including issuance and alleged renewal of permit.” I’ve 158 added in the next section, uh, uh, that, uh, the decision 159 being appealed is as stated and also, the alleged renewal 160 of the permit. The same has been added to the next 161 section. And at the bottom, uh, there’s a date indicating 162 the date of amendment, a signature of the, uh, appellant, 163 and, of course, uh, this has been received by Mr. 164 Sanders today. Now, to the extent that there might be a 165 concern that this is an unusual practice. I want to point 166 out and make very clearly, uh, that the, uh, decisional 167 law that I have been able to find indicates that this is a 168 practice that’s been followed by this Commission in the 169 past. In the, uh, in the Vitale decision, uh, Vitale vs. 170 Zoning Board of Appeals back in 2004, Judge Purtill 171 wrote a decision. And, while the facts of that particular 172 matter are not really of, uh, of, of consequence here 173 tonight, uh, in that decision, uh, there is, uh, 174 considerable discussion, several paragraphs, uh, uh, 175 concerning the submission of an amended appeal, uh, 176 and, uh, this, uh, was, uh, certainly not contested, 177 challenged, refused, refuted, uh, from the record as it 178 appears in Judge Purtill’s decision and I, uh, simply 179 want to point out that, uh, that this is not an indication 180 of the custom or practice of some other Zoning Board 181 of Appeals, but the Montville Zoning Board of Appeals. 182 And that’s, uh, by the way, uh, Mr. Carey, uh, that is , 183 uh, Vitale, trustee vs. Zoning Board of Appeals, 2004 184 Connecticut Superior Lexus 148. 185 Chairman MacNeil: Will you provide a copy of that for the record? 186 Atty. Chase: Yes, yes, I, I did, um, uh provide one to, uh -- 187 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, thank you. 188 Atty. Chase: Uh, uh, well, actually, uh, I did not. I will, uh, provide 189 a copy of that for the record. 190 Chairman MacNeil: Thank you. 191 Atty. Chase: And as well, though, uh, I know that, uh, had, uh, I 192 would’ve, um, sure have been corrected had there been 193 a, uh, a, a, uh, a misstatement on my part or some kind 194 of transmission error, I will submit also for the record, 195 a, uh, a copy of my fax transmission to Attorney 196 Heller’s office indicating he had received this.… 197 Moving along and this was the issue raised by Attorney 198 Heller that particularly concerned me because, uh, I 199 thought, at first, that I had first done something, uh, 200 something wrong, uh, and, uh, I had to take a, a further 201 look and, uh, and, and parse through, uh, precisely what 202 was being, uh, raised, uh, and that was that this appeal 203 is also flawed, uh, or, uh, or invalid, uh, as the case may 204 be, and that no notice was provided to the property 205 owner of the public hearing. Now, it is true that very 206 early on as soon as this appeal was filed, a number of 207 months ago now, that notice was provided by certified 208 mail to the property owner, um, uh, Green Falls 209 Associates at several addresses of record for that LLC 210 and a copy of, uh, of, of that notice and the certified 211 mailings and so forth is part of the record. Um, 212 however, it’s true that, uh, that notice, uh, was notice of 213 the appeal and the allegation was that under, uh, 214 Section 8-7, I believe it is, of the, uh, of the, uh, 215 Connecticut General Statutes, that the affected property 216 owner, that any affected property owner is entitled, 217 specifically, to notice of a public hearing, uh, being 218 held. And, uh, again, my concern that I had done 219 something wrong here, um, reading the Statute 220 carefully and the decisions that address it, indicates that 221 it is, statutorily, the responsibility of the Zoning Board 222 of Appeals, uh, or, uh, of the Zoning Board of Appeals 223 in this case or, or any Commission, uh, uh, as the case 224 may be, to provide notice to an affected property 225 owner. Now, usually we don’t have any difficulty in 226 that situation because the applicant say before for a 227 variance if, you will, is the property owner or the agent 228 of the property owner and you’re, uh, the, the 229 Commission, uh, uh, has delegated authority or 230 delegated responsibility to provide notice to people 231 such as abutting or adjacent property owners to the 232 person filing the application of the appeal, which was, 233 of course, done here. Um, that delegation had not taken 234 place with respect to any other affected property owner 235 and it remains, therefore, under the Statute, the Board’s 236 responsibility to do so. And, uh, I, I know -- 237 Chairman MacNeil: So, we did something wrong? 238 Atty. Chase: Well, I’m not, -- 239 Chairman MacNeil: I’m sorry. 240 Atty. Chase: I’m not so sure -- 241 Chairman MacNeil: Go ahead. 242 Atty. Chase: I’m not so sure because if you, if you look in, uh, uh, 243 (inaudible) borrow for a moment and return to the 244 microphone with…a page from Mr. Sanders’ file, 245 which is to say, the public file of, uh, from Mr. 246 Sanders’ office, uh, concerning this matter. And, uh, 247 sure, uh, sure enough, there was a conversation, uh, by 248 the Commission staff with Attorney Carey, uh, 249 questioning the procedure here, uh, the Commission 250 staff was concerned about providing notice to the 251 affected property owner. The Commission staff, uh, 252 Judy La Rose had, uh, had, uh, inquired as to whether 253 this should be, uh, to the, uh, uh, property owner’s 254 attorney, uh, who, of course, had no formal way of 255 knowing who that might be at the time, uh, and, 256 Attorney Carey, uh, correctly, I believe, uh, instructed, 257 um, Judy La Rose to prepare a letter to the property 258 owner informing the property owner of the public 259 hearing so you certainly received correct instruction. 260 Um, and, uh, whether there was a, uh, shortfall on the 261 part of the staff, uh, I, I, I don’t know. Uh, before I 262 continue, I’m just going to ask that this, uh, uh, 263 correspondence between, uh, Judy La Rose and, uh, and 264 Mr. Carey, uh, be marked as an exhibit as well although 265 the only copy is the one from the ZEO’s file. 266 (inaudible) 267 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, somehow we’ll have to get a copy and put the 268 original back in. 269 Atty. Chase: So, first of all, it’s not a short fall or shortcoming on my 270 part. It doesn’t seem to be a shortcoming on Attorney 271 Carey’s part because he gave adequate instruction. The 272 saving grace here, however, uh, is this. Um, the, there, 273 there have been decisions, uh, starting, uh, with sort of 274 the, uh, the seminal case on this subject. This is the, uh, 275 uh, I’ll see if I can pronounce this right, the Bencivenga 276 decision, uh, out of the Appellate Court in, uh, in 1984, 277 uh, that addressed that, uh, precise statutory issue. The 278 ZBA had not provided notice to an affected property 279 owner. The property owner, therefore, didn’t show up 280 for the hearing and claimed, uh, that under the statute, 281 the process was, uh, was, was void and, uh, the, uh, the 282 Appellate Court, uh, ruled, uh, accordingly. Uh, 283 however, um, this is, um, uh, brought further forward, 284 uh, again, uh, within, uh, our own, uh, context, um, uh, 285 the, uh, uh, uh, Kobyluck decision, one of many in this 286 Town, but Daniel Kobyluck vs. Town of Montville 287 wasn’t a decision affecting this, uh, Board, apparently, 288 concerning, uh, or, yes, it was, uh, concerning, uh, lack 289 of such notice and, uh, again, uh, following failure of 290 the ZBA, no offense to any of you because I don’t think 291 any of you were here at the time, it was back in 2000. 292 Um, following the failure of the Montville ZBA to 293 provide notice of the public hearing, again, the property 294 owner didn’t appear. That was that. Process void. Uh, 295 decision, uh, reversed. Um, the, uh, uh, the, the, the 296 difference here, uh, of course, uh, is, uh, set forth in a 297 further decision, uh, just as an example, this kind of 298 thing has come up in other contexts as well. This is 299 Smith vs., uh, Zoning Board of Appeals of the City of 300 Ansonia. It’s a Superior Court decision, uh, 1990 301 Connecticut Superior Lexus, uh, 599. Of course, I’ll 302 submit copies of these decisions, uh, for the record and 303 for Attorney Carey’s reference. That was the opposite 304 situation and is the situation we have here. The 305 affected property owner showed up. The affected 306 property owner’s agent, uh, here showed up for the 307 public hearing and his attorney showed up and, quite 308 candidly, uh, um, perhaps they should have sh-, should 309 have stayed home for the benefit of their argument, but 310 they are here. The Courts had explained that by 311 showing up, despite lack of requisite notice, an 312 argument based on, uh, the failure to provide that notice 313 is waived. And so, I think that this will (forced) all that 314 decision the, or that, uh, circumstance. The three 315 decisions I just mentioned, I have copies of, uh, here 316 and, um, uh, I’ve provided little orange tabs they, you 317 know, they’re just helpful, uh, finding aids. But I’ll 318 submit these. 319 Chairman MacNeil: Thank you. 320 Atty. Chase: The next matter’s the most interesting, I think. We 321 spent, uh, a lot of time last time over the issue of what 322 the word ‘or’ means in the context of a regulation 323 where there is no clear indication of the intent of the 324 legislative body that that word ‘or’ should mean 325 anything other than ‘or’ or, more specifically, not mean 326 ‘and/or’, uh, ‘and’ slash, uh, slash ‘or’ and, so, we went 327 through the minutes, uh, and the transcript of the 328 proceedings of the Planning and Zoning Commission, 329 uh, almost a couple years back now when they made a 330 change to the regulation that’s at issue here. And, uh, I, 331 I, I think it’s going to be very difficult to include, um, 332 uh, that there, uh, is not indication of intent on behalf of 333 those drafters or those, uh, uh, uh, legislatu-, 334 legislatures, if you will, to, uh, to clearly indicate to the 335 standard required by the Supreme Court, to clearly 336 indicate an intent that ‘or’ should mean anything other 337 than its, what did we say, disjunctive conjunctive 338 context or sense. But Attorney Heller raised an 339 interesting point. He says, you know, in a nutshell, I 340 think his point was that, uh, that the members of the 341 Planning and Zoning Commission a couple of years ago 342 were simply intending to do in this zone, the WRP160 343 zone what their predecessors had done, had enacted 344 many, many years before in most of the other Districts 345 in the Town and that, therefore, the intention of those 346 original drafters was what was simply being carried 347 forward, uh, to, uh, this particular zone, uh, here and, 348 uh, and now. So, what I did, it took a little bit of effort, 349 uh, uh, but I, uh, have obtained copies and, for the 350 record, there is a certified copy, of all the meetings of 351 the Montville Planning and Zoning Commission from 352 meeting number one in 1969 all the way up through, uh, 353 meeting number 18 in, uh, in 19-, October, or rather, 354 September, I believe, of, uh, 1970 when the 355 Commission actually voted to enact the Zoning 356 Regulations. And, I, I have specifically included, uh, 357 pages, or the minutes, rather, of every meeting during 358 that period even though, in some cases, there was no 359 mention of the work on the proposed Zoning 360 Regulations, but just to show that I’m being inclusive, 361 uh, here. And, very briefly, the, uh, Commission 362 proposed regulations, uh, they eventually, uh, set the 363 date for a public hearing upon those regulations and, 364 then, subsequently they enacted those regulations. 365 Now, I’m going to submit these, uh, documents, uh, uh, 366 sort of together, um, and, uh, rather than proceeding in 367 an unclear way, I’ll point out that what I’m going to 368 show you, also, is a copy of the cover page of the 369 regulations that were being proposed by the Planning 370 and Zoning Commission in 1970 and the version, at that 371 time, of the regulation here in question, which was, uh, 372 known as 5.21 at that time, uh. There is also, again, the 373 cover sheet of the Montville Zoning Regulations 374 indicating effective date October 14th, 1970, 12:00 375 noon, in other words, after the enactment had taken 376 place they’re not longer proposed regulations, these are 377 the regulations and the page in question, you’ll see, is 378 unchanged. What really took some hunting, again, I’ll 379 submit all this as a package to you. What took some 380 real hunting was to find the minutes of that public 381 hearing which was held in September of 1970. And, 382 it’s about 80 pages long, I’m not going to read through 383 all these, but I would encourage you to, uh, because you 384 will find that you will search these public hearing 385 minutes in vain for anything but vague reference by a 386 couple of members of the public regarding protection 387 for small lots or non-conforming lots and an indication 388 by the Commission that, yes, we’re doing that, which 389 is, in fact, specifically what this regulation says that it 390 does. This regulation doesn’t say you can do anything 391 you want on a small lot. I contend it says that if you 392 meet certain requirements or other requirements you 393 can do something, um, but you will see no indication in 394 these minutes of any specific reference to, what about 395 lots that have, uh, not only, uh, narrow frontage, but 396 also, uh, narrow depth or, or, uh, or, uh, as the case may 397 be, uh, uh, to -- 398 Chairman MacNeil: insufficient area. 399 Atty. Chase: That’s right, that’s right, insufficient, uh, area. And, 400 again, to, uh, to, to drive the point home, um, after this 401 public hearing was held, in other words, the, the 402 proposed regulations were submitted to the public at a 403 public hearing. It was held, in fact, here at Uncasville 404 School, uh, on, again, September 16, 1970 and, after 405 listening to what the public had to say and, matter of 406 fact, uh, the commission went through the solemn step 407 of, uh, indicating that it had taken the due consideration 408 the comments for the public hearing, taken into due 409 consideration the concerns of the public and so forth, 410 they turned around and voted to approve what had been 411 the proposed regulations. In other words, after listening 412 to the public, after listening to many, many comments, 413 including a few comments with vague concern about 414 small lots, the Commission didn’t do anything other 415 than enact the very language that had been proposed 416 and is in question here tonight based on, uh, the, uh, 417 the, what, what the Supreme Court says is the proper 418 way of interpreting that, uh, the placement of that word 419 ‘or’ and the meaning of it. So, uh, what I’d like to give 420 to you and I’ll, uh, like I said, I’ll do this kind of at 421 once, I’m going to give a copy for the record, uh, a 422 certified copy of the meeting minutes, there’s a certified 423 copy of the, uh, of the, uh, uh, public, um, hearing, a 424 transcript, and then copies, as well, of that page of the 425 regulations both before and after. 426 Chairman MacNeil: Thank you. 427 Atty. Chase: I told you I wasn’t going to read through them, -- 428 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 429 Atty. Chase: They are voluminous.…I have some, uh,-- 430 Chairman MacNeil: There’s one short of these, Jon. 431 Atty. Chase: Oh, oh, sure. 432 Chairman MacNeil: The biggest one. 433 Atty. Chase: I think I have one extra. 434 Chairman MacNeil: Perfect. 435 Atty. Chase: Terrific. Now, I, uh, actually have…a couple of extras 436 of these materials and, uh, I know in the past, Attorney 437 Heller has clearly indicated that he has all this stuff at 438 the office back when his uncle was the Town Attorney, 439 but just so that we’re not relying on memory, I’m going 440 to provide a copy of this, uh, here, as well.… 441 Now, as to the publication of notice that Attorney 442 Heller raised. I, uh, don’t know if it was apparent, but 443 this, uh, this certainly took me by surprise the last time. 444 It certainly wasn’t something that I had, uh, counted on 445 and so I did a little, uh, research and I would, uh, -- 446 Chairman MacNeil: I think you said something like if you’d have known 447 about it, we could have saved everybody a lot of time. 448 I’m not sure what you meant by that. 449 Atty. Chase: Well, if, in fact, the publication of notice, uh, had been 450 done in accordance to the Statute and, therefore, would 451 have limited the appeal period to 30 days from 452 publication, rather than 30 days from notice by the 453 appellant, in this case, that there was something going 454 on out on that property then, then the circumstances, I 455 think would have been different. There, there, there are 456 two reasons, though, that I don’t believe that’s the case. 457 First of all, uh, that, as I read the Statutes, and, in 458 particular, the manner in which they were amended, uh, 459 to, uh, include the provisions mentioned by Attorney 460 Heller last time, uh, I would, uh, argue that the, uh, uh, 461 manner of provision of notice in the newspaper. You 462 have a copy of something that was published in The 463 Day or The Montville Times or something like that, uh, 464 that, while partially compliant with the Statute, is not 465 fully compliant, uh, based on the record. Um, Section 466 8-7 of the General Statues was amended back in 2003. 467 This was under Public Act 03-144, um, and this, 468 specifically, followed a well-known case called the 469 Monroe Decision, um, uh, regarding, uh, the sort of 470 appeals taken from actual notice of activities on a 471 property as opposed to notice provided by a newspaper 472 publication which is, whi-, whi-, which is not required 473 and still not required to be done in the case of a zoning 474 permit, unlike a subdivision approval or something like 475 that. However, um, in the wake of the, uh, Monroe 476 Decision, uh, the, uh, legislature got busy and amended 477 the Statutes and made some changes and they, they 478 changed, uh, the legislature changed section, amended 479 Section 8-7 to provide, uh, that in the case of an appeal 480 from the decision, um, of the Zoning Enforcement 481 Officer that the appeal period, uh, and this, this is the 482 actual language that was added, uh, at that time. “Such 483 appeal period shall commence for an aggrieved person 484 at the earliest of the following: Number One, upon 485 receipt of the order requirement or decision for which 486 su-, from which such person may appeal.” Well, we 487 don’t have that here. The appellant, here, can get a 488 copy of the order or decision. “Number Two, upon the 489 publication of notice,” uh, in a, in a, in a, I’m sorry, 490 “upon the publication of notice in accordance with sub-491 section (f) of Section 8-3 as amended by this act.” Or, 492 “number three, upon actual or constructive notice of 493 such order requirement or decision.” Now, I had 494 contended, uh, and still contend, uh, that this appeal 495 was brought based on prong three, within thirty days of 496 notice in the form of the appellant, Paul Chase, seeing a 497 hole being dug in the ground and concluding that this 498 was probably consistent with the issuance of a zoning 499 permit. Back in the Cockerham case a few years ago, 500 Judge Purtill explained that the digging of a hole in the 501 ground is consistent with the issuance of a no-, of a 502 zoning permit and that a reasonable person should 503 know that that’s probably what, you know, happened 504 or, at least, be on notice that there was reason to 505 inquire, um, as opposed to something like just cutting 506 down some trees or putting up a for sale sign or 507 something like that. But, Attorney Heller draws our 508 attention to prong two, a, a timely appeal being at an 509 earlier time. In other words, the earliest, uh, in the 510 statutory language, uh, uh, under prong two, upon the 511 publication of a notice in accordance with sub-section 512 (f) of Section 8-3. Well, you have to read that together, 513 therefore, with sub-section f of Section 8-3, which was 514 also amended at that time and, uh, what sub-section (f) 515 had previously said was that, uh, you know, this, this, 516 this mainly applies or is in the context of Building 517 Permits or Certificates of Occupancies so don’t be 518 confused with what the legislatures are saying that, in 519 the same manner, as the process used for appealing the 520 issuance of a building permit. So 8-, uh, 3(f) used to 521 say that “no Building Permit or Certificate of 522 Occupancy shall be issued for a building, use, or 523 structure subject to the Zoning Regulations of a 524 municipality without certification, in writing, by the 525 official charged with the enforcement of such 526 regulations that such building, use, or structure is in 527 conformity with the regulations or is a valid use under 528 such regulations.” In other words, uh, you need a, to 529 issue a building permit, you need a certification from 530 the, the Zoning Enforcement Officer. Uh, and, uh, so, 531 this, this is the, this is the provision that was amended 532 of 8-3, uh, and this is the manner in which, therefore, 533 under 8-7 such notice by publication can validly arise 534 and have valid effect, I would argue. The amended 535 language says, “such official shall inform the applicant 536 or any certification that such applicant may provide 537 notice of such certification either by, one, publication in 538 a newspaper having substantial circulation in such 539 municipality or, two, any other method provided by 540 local ordinance” and then the changes go on to state 541 what that notice shall contain. Now, I don’t think that 542 there’s any real question, uh, that the contents of the 543 notice provided by Attorney Heller, uh, to you last time 544 comply with, uh, the contents requirements of, uh, 8-545 3(f), so I’m not going to spend any time on that. And, I 546 don’t think, either, that, uh, that there’s, uh, any 547 question that it was done in accordance with any other 548 method provided for by local ordinance because I don’t 549 think we have one in Montville. I’ve looked and I can’t 550 find one. So, what we’re getting down to, uh, in that 551 amended language providing for the manner of service 552 that 8-7 says has to be followed. Again, and to, and to, 553 when we take out everything else that, you know, is not 554 at stake here, “such official shall inform the applicant 555 for any such certification that such applicant may 556 provide notice of such certification by publication in a 557 newspaper having a substantial circulation in such 558 municipality.” Well, the legislature, obviously, took 559 pains to include that language. The legislature didn’t 560 say, conspicuously, did not say that the applicant may 561 publish notice. It says that the official, in this case it 562 would be the Zoning Enforcement Officer, shall inform 563 the applicant for any such certification that they may 564 provide notice of the decision by publishing it. And, I 565 think, we have to account for the fact that the 566 legislature including that language included it for a 567 reason. Uh, while I can’t point to a decision -- 568 Chairman MacNeil: Is the word ‘or’ in there? 569 Atty. Chase: (laughing) it is… 570 Chairman MacNeil: Just checking, just checking… 571 Atty. Chase: It is, it is not a relevant part, -- 572 Chairman MacNeil: Just… 573 Atty. Chase: Um, uh, but, uh, uh, but, in any event, um, my guess 574 would be, would be that the legislature intended to 575 provide a sort of a gate-keeping requirement, in other 576 words, to prevent people from just going around 577 publishing notice claiming that something had been 578 done to ensure that the Zoning Enforcement Officer 579 was aware of this and that there was a, a, a, you know, 580 the use of the language, the, the, the mandatory word, 581 ‘shall’, “shall inform the applicant”. Naturally, the 582 ZEO would, would probably keep a record of that, you 583 know, in writing, that “I’ve, I’ve done this, I’ve taken 584 this step, and here is what you must do.” I mean, I 585 would presume compliance with this Statute would, uh, 586 would best be in the best form of a letter, “Dear 587 Applicant who I just issued a permit to, here is what I 588 give you authority to do under this Statute.” And 589 there’s been, certainly, no evidence, uh, and, and 590 certainly no contemporaneous written evidence 591 indicating that Mr. Sanders, uh, provided, uh, that, uh, 592 authority, gave that permission. In other words, uh, uh, 593 authorized, uh, the, the applicant to publish that notice, 594 whereby he would’ve had the opportunity to 595 presumable review it first, make sure it was correct. 596 Uh, you could imagine the consequences if people were 597 to take advantage of this kind of publication, and, uh, 598 and I will tell you that I, uh, I’ve searched carefully 599 and, uh, have, uh, not found, um, uh, any, uh, decisional 600 law that provides a contrary interpretation, uh, to that 601 language as I have set it forth. In other words, there’s 602 been no court that said, uh, uh, you know, I’m wrong 603 on that. It simply hasn’t come up. And so, you’ve got 604 to examine the context, I think, of that, uh, language, 605 what it says and what’s meant by “such official shall 606 inform” and the fact that we have no evidence that was 607 done here. 608 The second reason, which is a I think briefer, uh, 609 explanation of why the publication, um, issue or not is, 610 is kind of a moot point here, uh, takes us back to the 611 filing of that amendment, the, uh, amended appeal now, 612 specifically, is meant to address the issuance of a permit 613 by, uh, Mr. Sanders which, I don’t think anybody, 614 anybody disagrees that Mr. Sanders issued, uh, that 615 permit on the date he did, on, on 2/6/12. I’ve got copies 616 of that and so on. The, um, uh, the issue, of course, that 617 came up, for the first time, certainly, to my knowledge, 618 for the first time to the knowledge of the appellant, Paul 619 Chase, was this issue of renewal. And, it came up in an 620 unusual way last time, I think, because, if you’ll 621 remember, it was brought up to the Commission’s 622 attention that, among Mr. Sanders’ materials, some 623 things stapled together, was a form that, I’m going to 624 hold it up so you can see it, it looks like this. It says on 625 top of it “Town of Montville Building Department 626 Construction Permit Approval, Applicant is responsible 627 for obtaining all of the required approvals. No permit 628 will be issued until all of the required signatures are 629 obtained” and there’s sort of a checklist where, it seems 630 quite apparent to me, and, I think, we pointed out last 631 time, that this is a checklist, in my experience at any 632 rate, intended to be filled, intended by the Building 633 Department, who ultimately issues the Building Permit, 634 uh, to be used, uh, to uh, um, uh, ensure that all of the 635 required approvals were in place, be it a zoning, uh, 636 approval, be it any approval from the Fire Marshal, 637 maybe in the case of a commercial building, Health 638 Department, uh, uh, you know, Police Department, 639 WPCA, of course -- 640 Chairman MacNeil: Jon, I could tell you that that’s exactly what that form is 641 used for. It’s a checklist before a building permit is 642 issued to make sure all the prerequisites that are 643 checked are met. 644 Atty. Chase: I agree, I agree. 645 Chairman MacNeil: That’s what that form is normally used for. 646 Atty. Chase: I agree and, uh, well, I agree that that’s -- 647 Chairman MacNeil: And it may have been used for this. I’m just saying 648 that’s what the form is normally is -- 649 Atty. Chase: So, what I did is I, you know, went in and, uh, you 650 know, confirmed that, of course, myself with the, with, 651 with, with the building inspector who was kind enough 652 to provide a certified copy of a document from his files, 653 which is the same thing, -- 654 Chairman MacNeil: But, completed? 655 Atty. Chase: -- but completed, um, in other words, indicating that 656 that’s what it is, a checklist.…But, the argument was 657 that the uncompleted version and, I should say that it 658 makes (inaudible) sense that Mr. Sanders, and, 659 presumably, the applicant went to him first to get this 660 checklist signed off. Mr. Sanders as, makes plenty of 661 sense, made a copy of what he signed and stuffed it in 662 his file here. (inaudible) Obviously, it then went on to 663 the other departments that were necessary and out at 664 that location, you won’t have to go to the WPCA or 665 probably the State DOT, but the applicable, uh, boxes 666 were addressed and, uh, and signed off to the 667 satisfaction of the, uh, of the Building Inspector, one 668 presumes, because he had, then, issued a Building 669 Permit. Um, so the last time around and, this is what 670 kind of took me by surprise, because the, the 671 incomplete version, the initial signature by Mr. Sanders 672 was being held out to be a permit renewal. If you look 673 at the language although it’s, you know, it’s not very 674 expansive, we can, we can see that Mr. Sanders, 675 apparently, signed this on January 10, 2013, that’s the 676 date that appears next to his signature. And, underneath 677 it, he wrote permit number 212-006 2/6/12, which was 678 the date of the issuance of the permit. Now, we talked 679 last time about how the regulations expressly state that 680 all permits shall expire after a year if the work hasn’t 681 been done thereunder and it was quite clear, based on 682 the evidence before you last time in the form of an 683 affidavit and some other materials that, clearly, the 684 work hadn’t been completed under this permit within 685 one year. I don’t think that can be contested. As a 686 matter of fact, there weren’t even any trees cut down on 687 the property, uh, but, s-, so on, on 1/10/13 there can be 688 no question that the permit was, shall we say, 689 presumptively valid, it was not withstanding the issues 690 that I’ve raised concerning the, uh, the legal error 691 committed by Mr. Sanders that, that, that, on it’s face, 692 the permit was -- 693 Chairman MacNeil: -- still valid. 694 Atty. Chase: -- still valid on, on 1/10/13 when this was evidently 695 signed off, taken down to the, uh, Building Department, 696 well, actually a little bit later because, uh, the Health 697 Department signature is not until 2/6/13, so, apparently 698 the Building Permit wasn’t issued, uh, even right away, 699 um. The thing is this, um,…I took pains to make sure 700 there was nothing new in Mr. Sanders’ file beyond this, 701 in other words, no, no new permit out there or anything 702 like that that would take us by surprise tonight. I will 703 say that he was, Mr. Sanders was kind enough to mail 704 me, uh, recently, I guess, what could be called the one 705 new thing on this, uh, subject, um, it’s a letter to me, 706 it’s probably in the file, but I’ll put a copy in just to 707 make sure, and you can, you can have copies, also, just 708 to follow along. It’s just a letter to me, uh, uh, and it, 709 uh, it references, um, uh, “enclosed is a copy of the 710 receipt for renewal for Zoning Permit 212-006” and 711 there’s a check for ten bucks for Green Falls 712 Associates, the check’s dated 12/16/13 and then there’s 713 a receipt issued by Mr. Sanders that, uh, that says on it, 714 um, uh, “renewal”. And, uh, now, uh, there’s a, there’s 715 a memo on it, on the check, the check dated 12/16/13, it 716 says “renewal from 2/6/13 to 4/6/4 (sic)” which, I 717 thought, was kind of, kind of interesting.…So, what we 718 have is no contention. I took pains to check the file and 719 talked with Mr. Sanders, there’s no question that 720 anything further has been issued that, uh, that this, this 721 signature on the incompleted checklist form is still 722 being contended to be the renewal and that, um, there 723 was ultimately, or was in connection with that a check 724 for a sort of retrospective renewal, I guess, uh, ten 725 months, uh, starting ten months ago was, uh, was, uh, 726 provided, uh, and accepted. Now, here’s where it’s 727 kind of interesting. First of all, and as a preliminary, I 728 want to point out that the, uh, the Town, uh, of 729 Montville, or, particularly, the Planning Department 730 actually, actually publishes a schedule of fees for all of 731 the things that you have to pay for, be it a, you know, a 732 special permit or a zone change application and, uh, 733 here, a, uh, zoning permit and, uh, you’ll certainly see, 734 um, that there is no provision here for renewal and I’ll 735 get back to that point.…In other words, you pay your 736 ten bucks for a zoning permit or, or nothing else. A 737 permit for ten bucks is a permit for, for ten bucks. And, 738 we see here the manner in which it was recorded, uh, be 739 done. Well, as I alluded to last time, we’ve sort of been 740 here before. Some of us and I have been here before on 741 this issue of what constitutes a building permit, or, I’m 742 sorry, a zoning permit renewal even at the face of the 743 express language of the Montville Zoning Regulations 744 that says a permit expires, if everything’s not completed 745 in a year and makes no provision for renewal and, even 746 though, now as we see the fee schedule makes no 747 provision for renewal or anything like that. Well, it’s 748 back to the decision in the Charles Cockerham appeal 749 back in 2009 where this same sort of thing came up 750 except, the same, but different, because there, a man 751 was building a house. In fact, it was largely completed 752 while this process was going on and, standing here, I 753 noticed that the permit had, on its face, expired the 754 night before and Mr. Sanders, on that night, as I recall, 755 stated, “well, come on down to the office the next day 756 and I’ll renew that for you.” And, in fairness, that was 757 a situation where the work had been substantially 758 completed. The house was almost finished within that 759 year of the issuance of the permit and that, and you can, 760 you can even argue that it would’ve been completed if 761 it hadn’t been, perhaps, slowed down to whatever 762 extent by the appeal process. Here, we have something 763 different. No construction until that one-year period 764 had expired. In the Cockerham decision, Judge Purtill 765 said, as follows, he says as follows “at the hearing on 766 May 4th, 2005, it was noted that the permit had expired. 767 The next day, the defendant, Mr. Bialowans, appeared 768 at the ZEO’s office and the permit was renewed by a 769 notation on the original permit indicating renewal and 770 the payment of the required fees.” Later on, Judge 771 Purtill goes further and, provided some legal analysis, 772 he says, “the testimony of the ZEO was that the renewal 773 of the defendant Bialowans’ permit was not unusual 774 and it was the normal practice of the office to renew 775 permits in the same manner.” In other words, the 776 manner indicated earlier by Judge Purtill to actually 777 renew the permit. Here’s the permit. Here is the 778 renewal. It says on it ‘renewal’ and so on. Again, 779 conspicuously, this practice, again, which I don’t think 780 the regulations support, but Judge Purtill says or, at 781 least, accepted that it was the custom and practice of 782 Mr. Sanders to do something called a renewal and to do 783 it in this manner, uh, is not what we have here. So, I 784 know I offered this last time around and, um, Mr. 785 MacNeil, you were reluctant to take a copy of this 786 decision, uh, into evidence indicating that, uh, you 787 know, that, uh, the Board has all this paperwork in its 788 office and so on. I think you have to take a look at it, 789 uh, and that’s why I’m going to ask again to provide a 790 copy of -- 791 Chairman MacNeil: Feel free. 792 Atty. Chase: Thank you.…I’ve also given you (inaudible) for the 793 record, a copy of what Judge Purtill said was a renewal 794 based on the testimony of Mr. Sanders of what a 795 renewal is. 796 Chairman MacNeil: Jon, do you have one more of the, uh, one more of the, 797 uh, decisions? We’re missing one. Thank you. 798 Atty. Chase: And, I think that Judge Purtill was very careful as he 799 usually is to, uh, to be clear as to what the record 800 indicated, the testimony of Mr. Sanders was, as I’ve, 801 I’m paraphrasing, of course, Mr. Sanders says, 802 this is what we do, this is what constitutes a renewal in 803 Montville. And, again, I submit, that this is not what 804 we have here. Um, lastly on this point, I gave you copy 805 of the Town of Montville, uh, Planning Department fee 806 schedule and I pointed it out that there’s nothing about 807 renewing a permit. It’s either a permit or it’s not a 808 permit, but beyond that chart or table, there’s some 809 definition sections and, um, definition section, well, it’s 810 the third one on the second, third one and it appears on 811 the second page, uh, 2114-5, regarding retainment of 812 fees. And, um, it, uh, states very clearly that fees shall 813 be paid at the time of the application submission. It 814 goes on to say that failure to comply with the sub-815 section shall be grounds for denial of any application or 816 revocation of any permit previously issued. So, I, I 817 don’t know how we can construe the effort to, and 818 conspicuously, write on the check to say that here’s a 819 retroactive payment, ten months late for a permit after 820 its expired and to construe that to comply with the 821 Board’s, because it’s part of the Zoning Regulations 822 own, own rules, regarding the payment of those, uh, of 823 those fees and the consequences of failure to pay those 824 fees when they’re due. Or, rather, when an application 825 is filed. 826 I have, uh, I have one last thing I, uh, do genuinely, uh, 827 think and, um, that is this. It’s all very interesting, uh, 828 what the Planning and Zoning Commission said back in 829 1970 and I did find it very interesting, the folks who 830 have lived in the Town for a long time may have some 831 real interest in seeing who some of the players were and 832 some familiar names and whatnot, um, and, and, 833 certainly, it’s relevant to the points that have been 834 raised here, uh, as are the issues of what constitutes a 835 permit and the issue of, uh, what the various statutes 836 require. But I don’t want to lose sight of the ultimate 837 concern here, uh, which, admittedly, this, uh, uh, 838 Commission has very little, uh, jurisdiction over or 839 grounds to address, but we’re talking here about a, a 840 pre-existing non-conforming lot of, I think, what .11 841 acre or something like that in the four-acre water 842 resource protection zone. It sits right on the edge. In 843 fact, it’s separated by, about, an intervening strip of 844 someone else’s land about, maybe, 20 feet wide, 845 separated by that distance from the city of Norwich 846 Stonybrook Reservoir property. Uh, the whole purpose 847 in enacting that zone was, of course, to protect the 848 water resource, the aquifer, and, while there had been 849 some limited development in the neighborhood before 850 the, uh, uh, water resource protection zone was enacted, 851 it was, in fact, some distance from the property in 852 question and that’s really the ultimate concern here, 853 was the, uh, was the protection of the aquifer or, or, or 854 water resource, uh, a lot of that, I think, I don’t mean to, 855 uh, to, uh, uh, uh, to, uh, to, uh, uh, ramble a bit, but I 856 will say that the applicant’s property, the appellant’s 857 property, Paul Chase’s property is, uh, located adjacent 858 to the reservoir property, it’s his long term aim to 859 preserve that property, perhaps, one day it will wind up 860 as part of that watershed property. It contains water 861 resources itself, there’s a former pond. The Town of 862 Montville, as we know, is a growing community and 863 we’ll need to look to, for water, additional water 864 resources in the future as it is now, as you know, we 865 purchase some from Norwich, purchase some from 866 Groton and so the protection of that area is, uh, is 867 sincere and heartfelt and is actually what drives us here 868 tonight. Now again, Mr. Carey will probably tell you, 869 at this point, that that’s a very nice story, Mr. Chase, 870 but this is the Zoning Board of Appeals, we don’t have 871 jurisdiction over such things and it’s a shame, uh, or 872 would be a shame because there is some useful 873 evidence, I think, that’s already, uh, in the file. I see 874 that the concerned, other adjacent property owner Mrs. 875 Butler, uh, had written and she had asked that you take 876 into consideration an opinion which she went to the 877 trouble of obtaining seven years ago when this property 878 was last before you from, um, uh, her engineer who 879 addressed some issues concerning what was proposed 880 at that time. Now, at the time a variance was before 881 you, but it was essentially the same development 882 proposed now it we’ve just changed or purportedly 883 changed the, uh, the setback, uh, lines. It’s basically 884 the same, uh, development and the, um, the engineer 885 raised some, uh, I thought, interesting and relevant 886 points that should be considered, unfortunately, on the 887 face of them, you really couldn’t do much to take them, 888 uh, into consideration even though Mrs. Butler has 889 specifically asked that you, uh, you do so. So, um, I 890 want to, at least, allow that opportunity to occur, uh, in 891 other words, allow this Commission an opportunity to 892 take into consideration the recommendations and 893 concerns that were raised by DiCesare and Bentley 894 back in, well, 2007, I think it was, concerning -- 895 Chairman MacNeil: Is that, but, isn’t that, um, reliving the past, we’re here 896 to see, we’re, we’re here to find out what the word ‘or’ 897 means – 898 Atty. Chase: Well, I – 899 Chairman MacNeil: -- and so now, we’re going to go back and talk about 900 site conditions that may affect the reason that you 901 brought this, or your dad brought this forward. -- 902 Atty. Chase: Uh, what I, what I, what I will do is this, in answer to 903 that question. What I have here is a, uh, is, is a Verified 904 Intervention Pleading under Section 22A19 of the 905 General Statutes that, uh, i-, that provides a limited 906 jurisdiction for this Commission over environmental 907 matters that, uh, that come within its purview on the 908 basis of. uh, a matter like this. And ask that, uh, this is 909 a, an intervention pleading that’s, uh, that’s signed by 910 Mrs., uh, Joanne Chase, who is here tonight, um, and, 911 uh, it sets forth in the manner, uh, required of such 912 statutory, uh, pleadings, uh, the, uh, concerns that are, 913 uh, being raised in connection with the environment. 914 You have evidence in your file that gets precisely to, 915 um, uh, the, uh, the issues raised in this pleading, uh, 916 and, though, that opinion was written several years ago, 917 and some things may have changed, I would, uh, uh, 918 suggest to you that the science has not changed, the 919 scientific recommendations have not changed and the 920 advice of DiCe-, DiCesare and Bentley that certain 921 things be looked into and adequately addressed before 922 any development, uh, is permitted on that property -- 923 Chairman MacNeil: Now, I think I’ll have to ask our counsel if we can 924 actually take that in. 925 Atty. Chase: Well -- 926 Chairman MacNeil: I’m not an attorney, Jon, I don’t know. 927 Atty. Chase: Well, what I’m going to do is submit it and he can tell 928 you (inaudible) if he lets me -- 929 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, I, I, I’m just, if it’s relevant, or -- 930 Atty. Chase: Sure, well, here, uh, then, what I’ll do, then, is this, I’m 931 just going to hand it to (inaudible) -- 932 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. And, if he -- 933 Atty. Chase: -- (inaudible) copies (inaudible)-- 934 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 935 Atty. Chase: -- in some respect, it’s typical (inaudible) -- 936 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 937 Atty. Chase: -- just hand that to Mr. Carey and, uh, I know that he’ll 938 advise you -- 939 Chairman MacNeil: Thank you. 940 Atty. Chase: Sure. And, as I said there was some relevant evidence 941 in the record, I think, that pertains to that that I hope 942 you can (inaudible). 943 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 944 Atty. Carey: Mr. Chase, I just want to say that, by putting this in the 945 record, this amended appeal, um, it doesn’t necessarily 946 mean that the Board has jurisdiction (inaudible) the 947 record and I’ll advise them. 948 Atty. Chase: I know you will, I know you will, Mike, but please, 949 please understand, and I wanted to, uh, and this is a 950 good point to make clear for the record. In preparing to 951 come here tonight, I took into consideration things, 952 things that were raised last time mainly the points 953 raised by Attorney Heller, of course, as we’ve seen 954 point by point. I also took carefully into consideration 955 the question that I directed, in, in, in all honesty, to Mr. 956 Carey last time in respect to the purported renewed 957 permit. I said, “Mr. Carey, is this going to be 958 considered a valid renewal or not?” I used words to 959 that effect. And, if you recall, with all due respect to 960 Mr. Carey, he would, will not answer my question, he 961 stated, and I recall this specifically, that he didn’t feel 962 that it’s his place to give me legal advise. So, based on 963 your own attorney, I really don’t know if what is being 964 purported to be a renewed permit is, in fact, considered 965 by this Board or accepted by this Board as such, so 966 what am I supposed to do? I either have to raise the 967 point or, now, or raise it later at some point in the 968 future, uh -- 969 Chairman MacNeil: I think it’s fair to raise it and I also think it’s fair to 970 give, just like you had an opportunity last month to 971 review and bring something forward, he’s presented 972 something and he can review it and, then, comment 973 after the fact. 974 Atty. Chase: Absolutely, I certainly wouldn’t suggest that you would 975 make a deci-, or could make a decision, you know, 976 tonight on this. I mean, Mr. Carey has some homework 977 to do and I gave you some interesting reading materials 978 and, and so forth. Uh, that’s really all that I have. I, I 979 thank you for your consideration. E-, E-, Except that if 980 there’s anything that Attorney Heller says that I feel I 981 need to address, I’d just like a few minutes to do it. 982 Chairman MacNeil: Thank you. 983 Atty. Chase: Your welcome, thank you. 984 Chairman MacNeil: Do you need a few minu-, do you need, do you need a 985 break? 986 Atty. Carey: Yes. 987 Chairman MacNeil: Oh, um, let’s take a five-minute break. 988 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, we’re back, um, okay, is there anyone who wants 989 to, uh, actually, I guess we can hear from, uh, the, uh -- 990 Atty. Carey: Mr. Chairman? 991 Chairman MacNeil: Hold on one second. 992 Atty. Carey: Just before Mr. Heller begins, I want to expand on that 993 comment I made about the amended application and the 994 22A19 application (inaudible). I said, jurisdiction, I 995 mean that that we are not (inaudible) or for any reason, 996 jurisdictional or other reasons. I just want to make that 997 clear. 998 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, thank you. 999 Atty. Heller: Good evening Mr. Chairman, members of the Board. 1000 My name is Harry Heller, I’m an attorney with an 1001 office at 736 Route 32 in Uncasville and I’m 1002 representing the property owner and the respondent in 1003 this matter, Green Falls Associates, LLC. Um, I’m 1004 going to make my presentation this evening, sort of, in 1005 reverse order, um, in, and in doing so, the first thing I 1006 want to address is the use of the word ‘or’ and the 1007 derivations of Sections 4.13.5 and 4.13.6 of the current 1008 Zoning Regulations which provide relief, um, in a 1009 number of respects from the bulk requirements of the 1010 regulations for non-conforming lots. And the first thing 1011 I’m going to do is introduce into the record my sworn 1012 affidavit and attached to it are copies of Section 5.21 of 1013 the Zoning Regulations that were adopted in October of 1014 1970, um, that, I believe, Attorney Chase also 1015 incorporated into the record. And, attached to that 1016 affidavit are Exhibits A, which is the draft of the regul-, 1017 the Zoning Ordinance that went to the final public 1018 hearing and, I think, as I’ve indicated previously, uh, 1019 the September 16, 1970 public hearing was the sixth 1020 public hearing held on the adoption of Zoning 1021 Regulations in the Town of Montville, uh, because 1022 zoning had been defeated at the prior five referendums 1023 and the Section 5.21 that was incorporated into the final 1024 draft that went to public hearing, uh, represented a 1025 culmination of comments, uh, elicited at prior public 1026 hearings and prior defeats of the draft ordinance, uh, 1027 and was refined to address those concerns. Now, if you 1028 look at Exhibit A and Exhibit B. Exhibit A is what 1029 went to public hearing. Exhibit B is what was 1030 ultimately adopted. Um, they are the same, but not 1031 identical. If you look at the last sentence of the first 1032 paragraph, uh, after Section 3.12, there was a correction 1033 of the word ‘of’, uh, to properly incorporate the word 1034 ‘or’ so that small lots either had to conform with the 1035 bulk requirements in Section 3.12, which was a table of 1036 bulk regulations that was incorporated into the Zoning 1037 Ordinance from 1970 to 1990, uh, and then the 1038 comprehensive revision of the regulations in 1990 was 1039 replaced by individual sections for each zone in Town, 1040 which incorporated both the use and the bulk 1041 regulations. One thing that is important to note in the 1042 title to Section 5.21 is that it’s entitled “Small Lots for 1043 Single Family Detached Residences”. This regulation 1044 was in effect from 1970 to 1990. In 1990, the Planning 1045 and Zoning Commission comprehensively revised its 1046 Regulations and the provisions that were a separate 1047 section, in Section 5.21 because this was such an 1048 important issue to the townspeople in the public 1049 hearings leading up to the ultimate adoption of Zoning 1050 Regulations were treated as a separate stand-alone 1051 section. In 1990, um, they were appropriately 1052 incorporated into the general non-conforming lot, non-1053 conforming use, and non-conforming structures 1054 sections of the regulations, um, in Section 4.13.5 and 1055 4.13.6. But, the language which is the substantive 1056 discussion of this proceeding, um, which has a total 1057 area or lot frontage, the word ‘or’, less than the 1058 minimum required has not changed from the date when 1059 zoning was first considered in Town. That language 1060 has stayed the same. So, in the case that was cited by 1061 Attorney Chase, um, the Angell case and a second 1062 Connecticut Supreme Court case, which is the 1063 D’Occhio vs. Connecticut Real Estate Commission 189 1064 Connecticut 162, pages 169 to 170, the Supreme Court 1065 said, Section 20-324G, which dealt with the power of 1066 the Real Estate Commission to intervene in 1067 proceedings, say, against a builder or developer where a 1068 claim was being made under the guarantee fund. The 1069 Commission seizes on the phrase ‘intervene in or 1070 defend’ contained in sub-section A of Section 20-324E 1071 as affording it a choice of intervening independently or 1072 on behalf of the agent. The disjunctive ‘or’ can be 1073 construed as ‘and’ where such construction clearly 1074 appears to have been the legislative intent. So, in 1075 dealing with the substantive issue here, what we have to 1076 do is look at and see if we can determine the legislative 1077 intent of the Planning and Zoning Commission which is 1078 expressed both in its deliberations and in comments 1079 made during the public hearing as well as how that 1080 language has been implemented consistently over a 1081 period, now, of 44 years. And, if you look at the 1082 minutes of the September 16, 1970 public hearing that 1083 was submitted into the record this evening by Attorney 1084 Chase, I’m going to call your attention to two 1085 provisions. On page 51, the Commission, which was 1086 holding the public hearing, was addressed by a Mr. 1087 Solmo (sp?) he stated, “everybody has been talking 1088 about the big property owners. I am one of the guys 1089 that’s got a little tiny lot, a little 50 foot frontage, and I 1090 am worried. Am I going to have trouble building on 1091 this lot a few years from now? This lot was bought to 1092 build on and if I am going to afford, if I am going to 1093 suffer because I purchased the lot and I can’t afford to 1094 build on it now, I think this is just taking my land away 1095 and throwing it away.” Response from the Chairman, 1096 “On page 52, I think you will find the answer.” Now, if 1097 you go back to the affidavit that I submitted, the Exhibit 1098 A attached to it is page 52 of the ordinance which was 1099 before the public hearing that evening so the Chairman 1100 was, specifically, referring to the provision concerning 1101 Section 5.21 for small lots for single family residences. 1102 In Mr. Solmo’s case, not only a tiny lot, but a lot with 1103 50 feet frontage, which was less than anything required 1104 in the Zoning Ordinance as it was proposed in the 1105 public hearing. Mr. Solmo continues, “I read this then 1106 it is hazy in other aspects.” The Chairman, “well, you 1107 know, it is not the easiest language, certainly. We have 1108 considered this for the existing small lot.” In other 1109 words, Mr. Solmo again, “we will be able to give them 1110 a new way when they are talking about making this 1111 acreage smaller instead of…” oh, I’m sorry, I’m going 1112 on now to page 64. Another question raised to the 1113 Commission by a Ms. Nance (sp?). “Diane Nance, 1114 Lakeview, Salem. I own property in Montville, now, in 1115 the 120 area and it is less than three acres of land. 1116 What I want to know is, is the Deed that I now have 1117 good for building a home or is it not after this goes 1118 through?” The Chairman, “here is the specific instance 1119 of a specific question we have to go into. There are 1120 provisions in here for that. Where was that? Page 52? 1121 5.21 on page 52, small lots for single-family detached 1122 residences. There are provisions in the regulations for 1123 the protections of just such an instance.” Ms. Nance, 1124 “yes, but there are places in this book that contradicts 1125 this. If a foundation isn’t already down, is that 1126 measurement on that Deed still good?” The Chairman, 1127 “no, that doesn’t apply to this. This is something 1128 different. Where a lot exists in a certain condition and 1129 it is a lot and the owner does not own contiguous 1130 property, then it can be covered. However, as I say, we 1131 cannot go into specific instances without knowing the 1132 whole story.” So, I would submit to the Board that the 1133 dialogue in the public hearing record specifically 1134 indicates that the Planning and Zoning Commission 1135 was contemplating the very type of lot that we’re 1136 talking about this evening when it enacted Section 5.21 1137 as a portion of the Zoning Ordinance in 1970 and that 1138 the very title of the provision that it adopted 1139 contemplated that this would be protection and grant 1140 relief for small, non-conforming lots and, as Mr. 1141 Solmo’s query indicated, a lot with 50 feet of frontage, 1142 which was substantially less than anything required in 1143 any residential zoning district in the Town. But, in 1144 interpreting that language, we next have to look at how 1145 that has been implemented and interpreted over the 1146 course of time that we have had zoning in the Town. 1147 The next document I’m going to enter into the record 1148 are zoning permits which had been issued by the 1149 Zoning Enforcement Officers of the Town of Montville 1150 that deal with these types of lots and I have 1151 incorporated a summary page which delineates the 1152 name of the applicant, the address, the assessor’s map 1153 and lot, the zoning district in which the property is 1154 located, the amount of lot frontage and the amount of 1155 lot area and the relief which was obtained either under 1156 Section 5.21, prior to 1990, or Section 4.13.5 and 4.13.6 1157 after 1990 and what I think is important to note here is 1158 that if you look at who issued these zoning permits, 1159 you’ll notice that they were issued by four separate 1160 Zoning Enforcement Officers. Uh, with respect to the 1161 Natick property by Michael Murphy, with respect to the 1162 Pike property by Johanna Kosberg (sp?), with respect to 1163 the Johnson property by Colleen Bezanson, and with 1164 respect to the other listed properties by Thomas 1165 Sanders. With respect to the Hanson property, I call 1166 your attention to notes which were found in that Zoning 1167 Permit file specifically making reference to the fact that 1168 it will meet the setbacks under Section 4.13. So, it is 1169 our contention on the substantive issue that, very 1170 clearly, the legislative intent of the Planning and 1171 Zoning Commission in adopting zoning in 1970 was to 1172 provide a universal protection for lots which did not 1173 meet the bulk requirements in the regulations, whether 1174 that be minimum lot area or minimum lot frontage or 1175 both and in instances where the size of the lot was so 1176 small that it could not comply with the side-yard 1177 setback requirements because of its narrowness to also 1178 grant relief in accordance with the table for the side-1179 yard setback requirements otherwise required in the 1180 bulk table. 1181 The next issue I’d like to address is the issue of the 1182 renewal of the zoning permit. Montville’s regulation 1183 was specifically considered by Judge Purtill in the 1184 Cockerham decision of September 30, 2009. And that 1185 was a renewal, which had occurred after the expiration 1186 of the zoning permit, as Attorney Chase indicated on 1187 the record this evening. This is what Judge Purtill said, 1188 “Section 4.2 of the Zoning Regulations provides that no 1189 building shall be erected without a zoning permit. The 1190 issue of zoning permits is treated under the regulations 1191 as a ministerial matter and the Zoning Enforcement 1192 Officer is authorized by Section 4.2.2 to issue such 1193 permits provided the requirements of the regulations are 1194 met and the required fees are paid.” This procedure 1195 was followed when the permit was issued on April 14, 1196 2004. At the time of renewal, nothing had changed. In 1197 this instance, the permit was issued, based upon a plan 1198 submitted to the Zoning Enforcement Officer, and, at 1199 the time or renewal, nothing had changed. The Zoning 1200 Regulations were the same, the house, which the 1201 property owner proposed to construct in accordance 1202 with that permit, was identical to that for which the 1203 original permit had been issued. The court goes on to 1204 say, “it would have been illogical and served no 1205 purpose to have required Bialowans to submit a new 1206 application identical to the existing application. 1207 Although the regulations do not specifically mention 1208 renewals, the ZEO had the authority under Section 1209 4.2.2 to take the action which he did.”…I’m going to 1210 also introduce into the record, notices, um, that I 1211 obtained from various files in the Zoning office and 1212 they’re almost identical and span a period of…a 1213 number of years, anyway. Systematically providing 1214 notice of an expiration of a zoning permit and the fact 1215 that a renewal can be made at the Planning and Zoning 1216 office. So, again, you have a course of conduct over a 1217 number of years by both Mr. Sanders and prior Zoning 1218 Enforcement Officers customarily renewing zoning 1219 permits and, in effect, validating the testimony of Mr. 1220 Sanders before this Board in the Cockerham decision, 1221 testimony which was relied upon by Judge Purtill in 1222 finding in Cockerham that the function of issuance of 1223 the renewal was a ministerial duty of the Zoning 1224 Enforcement Officer, um, and was valid 1225 notwithstanding the fact that there’s no express 1226 language in Section 4.5 of the Montville Zoning 1227 Ordinance authorizing renewals. And, I would submit 1228 that the fact that in Cockerham, work had been 1229 commenced on the property and in this instance work 1230 has not been commenced is immaterial to the legal 1231 principal which was enunciated by Judge Purtill in his 1232 decision. The critical factor is not whether work has 1233 been commenced or has not been commenced, but 1234 whether or not the proposal for which the original 1235 permit had been issued and the regulations under which 1236 the original permit had been issued had changed. 1237 This evening, you received an amended appeal in this 1238 matter. It is our position that if the original appeal was 1239 jurisdictionally deficient in that it did not comply with 1240 the requirements of Section 8-7 by stating the grounds 1241 for appeal, then this Board had no subject matter 1242 jurisdiction over this appeal of an issue and that cannot 1243 be corrected by an amendment to the appeal at this 1244 stage. The Vitale decision is different in that it does not 1245 go to the subject matter jurisdiction of this Board to 1246 entertain the appeal. It is our position that you have no 1247 subject matter jurisdiction to entertain the appeal due to 1248 the fact that the appeal was not taken within the 30-day 1249 period after the publication of notice occurred in The 1250 Montville Times. Now, Attorney Chase argues that the 1251 notice was insufficient because he alleges that Mr. 1252 Sanders did not notify the applicant that he had the right 1253 to publish. It, it’s an argument that’s also almost not 1254 worthy of a response, but because I suspect that we’re 1255 going to be facing an appeal in this, I need to respond 1256 for the record. Typically, people who apply for zoning 1257 permits are laypersons. They’re not familiar with the 1258 law. They are not knowledgeable in the procedural 1259 requirements, um, to protect their rights. The statute 1260 places the obligation on the property owner or the, the 1261 applicant for the zoning permit to publish notice of the 1262 issuance of the zoning permit in order to cut off appeal 1263 rights. Whether or not Mr. Sanders notified the 1264 applicant is not germane to this proceeding. What is 1265 germane is that the property owner published notice in 1266 the newspaper and Connecticut case law makes a 1267 distinction between what’s called constructive notice, 1268 notice that’s published in the newspaper, and actual 1269 notice, um, which is the knowledge that someone has of 1270 a proceeding or receiving an actual letter or notice 1271 informing someone of the proceeding. In constructive 1272 notice, the publication for the whole world to see, is the 1273 act that confers subject matter jurisdiction in land use 1274 permitting proceedings. In this case, the act of 1275 publication that complies with the Statute, in the 1276 substantive information that it provides to the whole 1277 world, is the act which cuts off the appeal rights. So, 1278 after that thirty-day period passed, there was no right of 1279 appeal, this Board does not have subject matter 1280 jurisdiction to entertain the appeal, and the renewal of 1281 the permit, issued by Mr. Sanders, did not alter any 1282 substantive rights. The permit issued and the permit 1283 renewed were under the same exact regulations and 1284 authorized the same exact activity. The renewal of that 1285 permit does not revive the procedural right of appeal 1286 where notice was given and no appeal was taken. By 1287 way of corollary, I call the Board’s attention to the 1288 procedural path that you follow when you have 1289 continued public hearings. The law requires you to 1290 publish notice twice in a newspaper of a public hearing 1291 being conducted before this Board in order to provide 1292 the whole world with notice of the location of the 1293 property, which is the subject of the application, and the 1294 subject matter of the application that you will be 1295 considering. If that public hearing is not concluded on 1296 the night of the hearing, you do not publish, again, 1297 notice of subsequent or continued hearings on the 1298 application because the published notice of the public 1299 hearing of an issue gives notice to the whole world of 1300 that proceeding and it is the obligation of the public, 1301 then, to take such action as they deem necessary to 1302 protect their substantive rights. 1303 Now, getting back to the amendment which was filed in 1304 the Zoning office today. I have two issues for the 1305 Board to consider. We still claim that the notice is 1306 deficient because it doesn’t state the grounds of the 1307 appeal. The grounds of the appeal in this case are that 1308 the Appellant, to your Board, claims that Mr. Sanders 1309 violated Section 4.13.6 in granting a zoning permit for a 1310 property which has both non-conforming lot area and 1311 non-conforming lot frontage. That was not stated in the 1312 original appeal to this Board. It was not stated in the 1313 amended appeal. The reason why the statute requires 1314 an Appellant to state grounds for the appeal is that so 1315 people can intelligently respond. You, as a Board, can 1316 intelligently prepare for the evidence that’s going to be 1317 presented at the hearing and people who may be 1318 affected by the appeal, in this case, the property owner, 1319 Green Falls Associates, can come to the hearing 1320 prepared to substantively address that which is being 1321 alleged as a deficiency in the action of the Zoning 1322 Enforcement Officer. Claiming that he had no 1323 authority to issue the zoning permit without specifying 1324 the grounds upon which that allegation is made, does 1325 not satisfy the requirements of Section 8-7 of the 1326 General Statues and is, therefore, fatally defective. 1327 Another thing I want to point out is, at the last public 1328 hearing in December, there was evidence entered into 1329 the record, uh, of the transcript of the hearing on the 1330 change in Section 4.13.6 of the Regulations that 1331 occurred in 2011. I want to be very clear that it is our 1332 position that what occurred there is not germane 1333 whatsoever to the substantive issue that’s been raised in 1334 this proceeding because the operative language, the use 1335 of the word ‘or’ didn’t change in the 2011 amendment. 1336 So, again, you have to go back and, one, look at what 1337 the intent of the Planning and Zoning Commission was 1338 in 1970 when they adopted Section 5.21 and how that 1339 interpretation has been uniformly applied by four 1340 different Zoning Enforcement Officers in the Town of 1341 Montville over a period of 40 years, um, without any 1342 complaint by the Planning and Zoning Commission 1343 which enacted it in its legislative capacity. 1344 The final issue that we need to address is that there was 1345 a 22A19 petition that was submitted into the record this 1346 evening. Um, a 22A19 petition authorizes any person 1347 who, in a verified petition, alleges that there is activity 1348 which is reasonably likely to unreasonably pollute or 1349 destroy the natural resources of the State of Connecticut 1350 has standing to appear before your Board to allege 1351 those environmental degradations which are claimed. 1352 And you, as a Board, have to consider those that are 1353 within the subject matter jurisdiction of your Board. 1354 You’re not the Environmental Protection Agency, you 1355 only have the right to consider what is within your 1356 jurisdiction. What I do not know, without looking at 1357 the exact language of the Statute, which I don’t have 1358 with me this evening, but Attorney Carey, as your 1359 representative, can advise you on, um, is whether or not 1360 a 22A19 petition applies in this proceeding because this 1361 is not a permitting proceeding. This is an appeal of a 1362 decision of the Zoning Enforcement Officer and I raise 1363 that as an issue that we’re not conceding that there is a 1364 right to file an intervention petition in an appeal of a 1365 decision of the Zoning Enforcement Officer and I’m not 1366 alleging there’s not. I, I simply do not know at this 1367 point, but you have a representative who can advise 1368 you, um, on that issue. There is case law, uh, appellate 1369 level case law in the State of Connecticut, the 1370 Riverbend decision and, I believe, it’s the Evans 1371 decision that indicate that in the event that your Board, 1372 in considering a 22A19 intervention petition, makes a 1373 determination that the activity which is being proposed 1374 is not reasonably likely to unreasonably pollute, impair, 1375 or destroy the natural resources of the State of 1376 Connecticut that you do not have to make a finding, 1377 that there are not feasible and prudent alternatives. So, 1378 in the event that Attorney Carey, on your behalf, 1379 determines that there is authority to file an intervention 1380 petition in this proceeding, then, in addition to the other 1381 findings that you’re required to make on the appeal, you 1382 will be required to make a determination as to whether 1383 or not the activity for which the zoning permit was 1384 issued is reasonably likely to have a deleterious impact 1385 on the environment. In considering that, what you are 1386 dealing with here is a small validly existing non-1387 conforming lot near the end of Cherry Lane. Not 1388 abutting, but in very close proximity are in excess of 1389 100 acres of land that is owned by the City of Norwich, 1390 Department of Public Utilities as part of their 1391 Stonybrook Watershed and Reservoir. That land will 1392 not be developed. The property that surrounds the 1393 Green Falls Property on three sides is an approximately 1394 70-acre tract of land. That parcel, by regulation, will 1395 have to be developed at a density of one dwelling unit 1396 per 160,000 square feet so in considering environmental 1397 degradation that may result from the construction of 1398 this one singular house what you need to consider is 1399 what the overall impact of that will be on the 1400 environment in light of the total context of the area 1401 where the lot is situated and the density at which 1402 development can occur in that area as the result of the 1403 ownership of large acreage by Norwich Public Utilities 1404 and the fact that the whole area is zoned in the WRP160 1405 resources district. We submit to you that, one, the 1406 construction of a dwelling house on this lot is required 1407 to comply with the Connecticut Public Health Code. 1408 Number two,…this may take a minute… 1409 Chairman MacNeil: Do you want us to take a few minutes, or… 1410 Atty. Heller: No, no, it won’t, it won’t take that long. I would like to 1411 submit into the record, a letter from Ian Kohl, who is a 1412 registered soil scientist, wetlands scientist, addressed to 1413 Peter Gardner of Dieter and Gardner, dated August 31, 1414 2007. “At your request I have examined the above 1415 referenced property for the presence of inland wetlands 1416 and watercourses in accordance with the regulations of 1417 the Town of Montville, Connecticut and the State of 1418 Connecticut Inland Wetlands Watercourses Act 1419 Connecticut General Statues 22A36 through 45. After 1420 investigating the soil conditions on the subject property 1421 it was clearly evident that there are not inland wetlands 1422 or watercourses on the property or within 75 feet 1423 thereof. I have reviewed the subject site plans titled 1424 ‘Plans Showing Proposed House, Well, Drive and 1425 Sewage Disposal System on Property of Arthur W.D. 1426 Gazelle’,” which is this property, “dated January 2007 1427 prepared by Dieter and Gardner and believe that the 1428 existing field conditions shown are accurately 1429 represented. In addition, it is my professional opinion 1430 that the proposed activities associated with the subject 1431 site development will not negatively alter or diminish 1432 any offsite wetlands or watercourses.” Now, the 1433 testimony in this proceeding this evening was concern 1434 for the protection of the aquifer and the water resources. 1435 At this time, I would like to call, uh, Peter Gardner who 1436 is a member of the applicant Green Falls Associates, 1437 but is also a licensed land surveyor in the State of 1438 Connecticut, um, to discuss the procedures which are 1439 followed with respect to the siting a non-sited (?) septic 1440 system and with respect to the drainage patterns in this 1441 area. 1442 Mr. Peter Gardner: Good evening, uh, Peter Gardner, licensed land 1443 surveyor, uh, Gales Ferry, Connecticut. Uh, we started 1444 working on this property in 2007. One of the first steps 1445 we always do with a property is test holes. Uh, along 1446 with the Uncas Health Department, uh, we excavated 1447 deep test pits on the property and the data that came 1448 from them was, was very good. In fact, the test holes 1449 did not require an engineered septic system. Along 1450 with that, we also looked hard at where this property sat 1451 with relationship to the, uh, reservoir system. We are 1452 not in the watershed for the reservoir, uh, that’s proven 1453 by the topography of the area as well a, just going out 1454 there and looking at things, but, um, we meet health 1455 code, we are not in the watershed and, with regards to 1456 the Uncas Health District, getting a permit there was 1457 pretty easy compared to other stuff so, um, we’ve got a 1458 good site here. Thank you. 1459 Chairman MacNeil: Thank you. 1460 Atty. Heller: And, I believe that we have into the record, but I’d like 1461 to confirm it, the permit to discharge that was issued by 1462 the Uncas Health District… 1463 Chairman MacNeil: Well, I know they signed off on the check sheet that, 1464 that, for the, the, the document that was submitted, um, 1465 earlier was a sign off sheet and Uncas Health District 1466 signed off on that permit, sign off sheet. 1467 Atty. Heller: We don’t have the permit… 1468 Chairman MacNeil: I don’t -- 1469 Board Member Adams: (inaudible) had one, no? 1470 Chairman MacNeil: It was a while ago. We probably, we may have it 1471 here.… 1472 Board Member Freeman: Is this what you’re looking for?… 1473 Chairman MacNeil: No, it would be from the Uncas Health District.… 1474 Board Member Adams: Is that it?… 1475 Chairman MacNeil: No.…I have a copy of, um, I’ve got it. 1476 Unknown Board Member: Here it is. 1477 Chairman MacNeil: Yup.… 1478 Atty. Heller: (inaudible) sign-off sheet, too, also, right? 1479 Chairman MacNeil: Yes. 1480 Atty. Heller: Okay. 1481 Atty. Carey Mr. McNeil, (inaudible)? 1482 Chairman MacNeil: I don’t have any exhibit stickers. But, I mean, these 1483 were given to us. But, I think, do you have that in your 1484 file? 1485 Atty. Carey: She has tonight’s here. 1486 Minutes Clerk Agnes Miyuki: I have tonight’s but I don’t have last (inaudible). 1487 Chairman MacNeil: You don’t have that from last week, or last month?…I 1488 think it actually came from Harry last month…yeah, 1489 that was part of his…he gave it to us last month. 1490 Board Member Freeman: Yeah, I think you gave it to us last meeting, Harry. 1491 Chairman MacNeil: You gave it to us last month, I believe. 1492 Atty. Carey: Does it have a sticker on it? 1493 Chairman MacNeil: Not this one. We all got copies. 1494 ZEO Mr. Sanders: (inaudible) February 23rd. 1495 Chairman MacNeil: Right, that’s attached to this, as well. 1496 Board Member Freeman: We have extra copies if you need it. 1497 Atty. Heller: I don’t think I, I think it was part of -- 1498 Chairman MacNeil: Oh, Tom’s. 1499 Atty. Heller: -- the, the Zoning Enforcement Officers -- 1500 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, I think he submitted this. You’re right, you’re 1501 right. So, do you have a co-, have one now or not? 1502 Atty. Carey: I don’t need them– 1503 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 1504 Atty. Carey: I just want to make sure that (inaudible). 1505 Chairman MacNeil: Alright. 1506 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 1507 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 1508 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 1509 Chairman MacNeil: Part of the file, I guess. 1510 Board Member Freeman: This came in with Tom’s…that I took? 1511 Unknown Board Member: Why don’t you give it to -- 1512 Chairman MacNeil: I gave it, they just gave it back to me. 1513 (inaudible conversation) 1514 Chairman MacNeil: There was something that he took out of there, that was 1515 only one copy, that they made an exhibit, that we had to 1516 make another copy, bring it back. 1517 Atty. Heller: We submit to the Board that the evidence indicates that, 1518 one, the development of this site for single-family 1519 residential purposes is in full compliance with the 1520 Connecticut Public Health Code and, two, that there is 1521 no evidence that the construction of one single-family 1522 residence on this lot, taking into consideration the soils 1523 on the lot and the setting of the lot in an area in a 1524 WRP160 zone with adjoining protected land, will not 1525 have any adverse impact on the natural resources of the 1526 State of Connecticut and, therefore, there is evidence in 1527 the record for this Board to make a determination that 1528 the activity authorized by the zoning permit issued by 1529 the Zoning Enforcement Officer is not reasonably likely 1530 to unreasonably pollute, impair, or destroy the natural 1531 resources of the State of Connecticut. Uh, that’s all I 1532 have unless the Board has any questions. 1533 Unknown Board Member: I’m good. 1534 Atty. Heller: Thank you. 1535 Chairman MacNeil: At this time, we’ll let the applicant come up and, 1536 hopefully, very briefly. 1537 Atty. Chase: I, I, I will try to be very, very brief. I, I would like an 1538 opportunity to review an item that’s been placed into 1539 evidence earlier just as has been done (inaudible). 1540 Chairman MacNeil: Would you like, like five minutes? 1541 Atty. Chase: Five minutes will be fine. 1542 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, we’ll take a five-minute break. 1543 Atty. Chase: And hopefully, that will allow us to resolve the issue -- 1544 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 1545 Atty. Chase: -- about the document that was, uh -- 1546 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 1547 Atty. Chase: (inaudible) 1548 Atty. MacNeil: All set. Go ahead, Jon. 1549 Atty. Chase: Okay, back on the record, Attorney Jon Chase, uh, I, 1550 uh, just to be perfectly clear, uh, I’m going to be 1551 referring to a couple of items that are, uh, in evidence. 1552 And so, I’m going to, I’m going to be taking those from 1553 Agnes’ pile and returning them when I’m finished 1554 (inaudible) -- 1555 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 1556 Atty. Chase: In, uh, in, in as brief response as I can, going, uh, point 1557 by point to the, uh, the issues, uh, Attorney Heller 1558 raised. With respect to the, uh, 22A19 intervention 1559 pleading in the environmental iss-, environmental 1560 issues raised, obviously, there’s been some, uh, uh, 1561 deferral by the Board to Attorney Carey and I trust that 1562 that will be, uh, resolved, uh, to, uh, to his, uh, 1563 satisfaction. Uh, however with regard to the, uh, 1564 substantive treatment of that, uh, intervention, uh, 1565 pleading that was, uh, filed, I submit that there is 1566 evidence in the record which indicates the unreasonable 1567 likelihood of harm to the environmental resources of 1568 the State that is not addressed by and not resolved either 1569 by the statements, by Mr. Gardner, in all due respect 1570 tonight, or by things like the fact that a septic tank 1571 permit was issued by the Uncas Health District. So, I 1572 simply ask that if the, uh, uh, Commission or Board, uh, 1573 takes the opportunity to do so, that the relevant 1574 documents are reviewed including that report by, uh, 1575 uh, DiCesare and Bentley Engineers who specifically 1576 urge that, uh, uh, alternatives be taken into 1577 consideration including alternatives such as those that 1578 were proposed in the intervention pleading, itself. Um, 1579 there was jus-, just, to make a correction, um, uh, 1580 Attorney, uh, and this might have been a simple 1581 misstatement on Attorney Heller’s, uh, part, but he, he 1582 talked about the testimony this evening. I presume he 1583 was talking about me concerning, uh, uh, concern for 1584 the wetlands and watercourses and so forth. I want to 1585 make perfectly clear that my statements in that respect 1586 were a statement on behalf of my client indicating his 1587 own, uh, intentions and hopes with respect, uh, to his, 1588 uh, property. They were not my testimony. Um, uh, 1589 conversely, there was Attorney Heller’s testimony in 1590 the form of an affidavit, uh, tonight. Uh, that is 1591 testimony. Under the ordinary rules of, uh, of evidence 1592 and procedure that would apply in a courtroom, uh, I 1593 would, uh, I would probably, at this point, have to ask 1594 for disqualification based on that testimony. We work 1595 on more relaxed basis here, there’s no question about 1596 that, but I want to make clear that, uh, his testimony 1597 was testimony. Mine was, uh, simply a statement of 1598 my client’s, um, position. 1599 There was a comment that the 2011 Planning and 1600 Zoning Commission proceedings that were discussed 1601 last time around that a transcript provided are not 1602 germane whatsoever to the proceedings here tonight. 1603 Well, come on folks, you weren’t born yesterday. Uh, I 1604 think it’s very clear what the relevance of those 2011 1605 proceedings are or were in the context of the appending, 1606 of appending appeal at that time for the Appellate Court 1607 which was ultimately upheld in favor of this Board’s 1608 decision. It was a back door attempt to circumvent the 1609 Appellate Court and to set up the, uh, uh, scenario for 1610 the sort of thing that ultimately brings us here tonight 1611 which was the issuance of a zoning permit. Uh, I, I 1612 think it’s very clear what the history of this, uh, matter 1613 has been and that the documents that were submitted, 1614 including the testimony, uh, I’m sorry, including the, 1615 um, uh, transcript of those 2011 proceedings where 1616 Attorney Heller, himself, stood up and said during a 1617 Planning and Zoning Commission’s, uh, uh, proceeding 1618 to amend its own regulations on its own motion, uh, 1619 when Attorney Heller stood up and said that this is what 1620 we are trying to do here. I, I, I think what happened 1621 here is quite clear. 1622 With respect to the continued contention that this 1623 appeal is fatally deficient for the failure to state grounds 1624 under Section 8-7 of the Zoning Regulations, I 1625 researched this matter. I thought I was pretty thorough, 1626 perhaps Attorney Carey may go further than I was able 1627 to do, but I spent a lot of time on it. And I find the fact 1628 that Attorney Heller conspicuously did not state any 1629 case law in support of his position to be quite telling 1630 because I couldn’t find any. 1631 With regard to the argument that was characterized as 1632 “almost not worthy of a response”, that there had not 1633 been compliance with the 8-3 publication procedure 1634 that 8-7 requires in order to establish that 30-day cut-off 1635 period by publication. Again, there is no case law 1636 addressing that argument to my knowledge, based on 1637 my research and, again, there was none presented. 1638 Now, that’s not to say that there is a decisional law 1639 that’s in some way relevant, that there could be 1640 analogies drawn, uh, but there is no on-point authority 1641 on that, uh, uh, specific, uh, position nor did Attorney 1642 Heller present any, uh, as, uh, as we saw. The 1643 argument was that the renewal or the, uh, I’m sorry, the, 1644 uh, the, uh, uh, the argument that the, that the renewal 1645 of the permit, uh, the purported renewal does not re-1646 establish the procedural right to challenge the original 1647 permit, I think, is simply incorrect on the face of the 1648 example given. The analogy was made that Boards and 1649 Commissions publish notice of public hearings and 1650 then, sometimes, continue those hearings from time to 1651 time and that the public, having been adequately 1652 apprised of the public hearing, uh, therefore has notice 1653 of a continued, uh, public hearing. I just think it’s off 1654 point. Um, the, uh, case law, including some of the 1655 decisions that I have submitted for other reasons 1656 tonight, in some of the cases, discuss this, uh, very 1657 issue, um, concerning, um, uh, notice, uh, of, uh, public 1658 hearings being attributable, once provided, to future 1659 proceedings and, uh, again, I, I just don’t see what it 1660 has to do with the renewal of a, uh, of a zoning permit, 1661 um. Apples and oranges. It’s a tough issue, I realize 1662 that, but the analogy is simply not, uh, correct. 1663 On the issue that there is no subject matter jurisdiction 1664 over this appeal by this Board because no grounds have 1665 been stated. In the application form that is handed out 1666 by your Zoning Enforcement Officer to the layperson 1667 who signed it or to the laypersons like the one who 1668 signed it, I should say. It’s not signed by me. Would, 1669 if correct, create an impossible situation. This may be 1670 relevant to the fact that, once again, despite research on 1671 my part, after Attorney Heller raised this issue last time, 1672 I’m unable to find any case law standing for the 1673 proposition that he states, that because no, uh, specific 1674 grounds are stated on the form. The form is quite 1675 specific. It says that there is an error being challenged 1676 in any order or decision of the Zoning Enforcement 1677 Officer. More to the point, though, and, as illustrated 1678 by my earlier commentary about the waiver of notice 1679 defects, and I realize that Attorney Heller would make 1680 the argument response that subject matter jurisdiction 1681 can’t be waived and I disagree that it’s a subject matter 1682 jurisdictional problem, suffice it to say. He and his 1683 client came here last time. They were able to mount a 1684 very well prepared argument against this appeal. 1685 Furthermore, they listened to my arguments, they came 1686 back here tonight and had some interesting responses. 1687 To argue that they were, that their, that their ability to 1688 do so was diminished in any way, uh, based on the 1689 alleged lack of any further indication of what this 1690 appeal is, other than what was stated in the appeal as, as 1691 now, of course, amended, I, I think is just, I, I think is 1692 just specious. They were, they would have been better 1693 off making that argument if they had stayed at home 1694 and not come here as I stated in respect to the, uh, to the 1695 other notice issue where the courts have specifically 1696 indicated waiver based on presence. 1697 I think if you read the minutes of that 1970 public 1698 hearing, notwithstanding the blas (?) that was placed on 1699 it with it by Attorney Heller. You’ll come to the 1700 conclusion that I did. The same conclusion that I did, 1701 that there was no specific discussion of this subject of 1702 the, of the language of that regulation and, uh, and, uh, 1703 what it was intended to mean, specifically, with regard 1704 to the use of the word, ‘or’. A couple of people 1705 expressed concern at the public hearing about the 1706 impact on small lots and there’s no question that the 1707 regulation here in question is intended to provide some 1708 relief for small pre-existing lots. The question is, 1709 really, where does it end? What about a, what about a 1710 10 x 10 foot pre-existing small lot? 1711 Chairman MacNeil: I always thought that a lot, as long as you could meet 1712 the health requirements, the bulk and the setbacks, as 1713 long, that’s, that was number one. Even if you had a 1714 small pre-existing lot, you couldn’t, you couldn’t 1715 develop that lot, unless you could meet the health 1716 requirements. That’s, that’s, I thought that was sort of a 1717 prerequisite for any, uh, structure or any residence or 1718 dwelling unit to be put on a property. That’s pretty 1719 much, you can’t get your septic or you can’t, there’s no 1720 city sewer, you’re done. 1721 Atty. Chase: Well, I mean, ultimately, uh, you know, uh, you can’t, 1722 uh, you can’t build a house and rely on an outhouse or, 1723 uh, or dragging buckets of water from the brook, uh, uh, 1724 you know100, uh, yards away as you might have done 1725 in the 18th century. That’s, uh, that, that, that’s 1726 certainly true. The existence or not of a septic permit 1727 by the Uncas Health District is not dispositive of 1728 whether your regulation’s been satisfied. The 1729 regulation -- 1730 Chairman MacNeil: But, I’m saying that talks to a concern of, you know, 1731 old, o-, developing a small lot that doesn’t meet the b-, 1732 our bulk requirements, but it’s trying to, the Health 1733 Department has an o-, has a jurisdiction – 1734 Atty. Chase: Okay, – 1735 Chairman MacNeil: -- that says you’ve got to have a well so far away from 1736 your septic system and -- 1737 Atty. Chase: Okay, may-, may-, maybe I see your point, I mean it’s 1738 certainly true that while a pre-existing non-conforming 1739 lot does not need to conform to the area requirements of 1740 the district. I mean, it’s, it is a fact, but it is not a fact 1741 that, uh, can be challenged here that this .11 acre lot 1742 exists in the 160,000 square foot, uh, water resource 1743 protection, uh, zone. That’s the nature of a non-1744 conforming lot. Nevertheless, besides being able to get 1745 a septic permit or, uh, you know, or, or what have you, 1746 the more germane requirement, specifically the 1747 germane requirement here, is that all other area or, 1748 rather, I’m sorry, um, uh, uh, bulk and, uh, and setback 1749 requirements of the zoning regulations apply. That’s 1750 why, for example, when this property was before you 1751 seven years ago, the issue was a requested variance 1752 from the, um, uh, the WRP160 setback requirements, 1753 which apply to this small property. Uh, this Board, uh, 1754 voted not to grant that variance or did not approve those 1755 variances and, as I said, the Appellate Court uphold, 1756 upheld you because, uh, there was demonstrated a, uh, 1757 a, a valid alternative use that met the Zoning 1758 Regulations. And, in fact I would posit that that valid 1759 alternative, uh, use is still available based on, uh, 1760 evidence that’s, uh, been, uh, here, uh, before you. I 1761 would, uh, refer you to the, uh, to the notices from Paul 1762 Chase to Peter Gardner back in September or 1763 thereabouts and the contents and what they say and that 1764 you weigh that against what the Appellate Court stated 1765 regarding available alternative uses, to the extent that 1766 you’re interested in that. I don’t think that it really 1767 resolves the question before you tonight. The question 1768 tonight is, does this lot, this, it is a lot, does it, is it 1769 entitled to the relaxed setback requirements that are set 1770 forth in the regulation in question and here we are, um, 1771 uh, can you, can you satisfy one alternative for the 1772 other? Or can you satisfy both? Or qualify under both 1773 and uh, and, and, and meet the, uh, uh, or meet the 1774 entitlement or be entitled to the provisions of that 1775 section? Again, um, ‘or’ and I don’t want to dwell on 1776 that, but we talked about the case law. I will dwell on it 1777 to this little bit only to say that the Supreme Court with 1778 respect to the interpretation of that sort of language and 1779 the need to determine specific legislative intent has 1780 nothing to do with the practices, customs, past decisions 1781 of the Zoning Enforcement Officer. I think I mentioned 1782 last time to you, Mr. Chairman, that the Zoning 1783 Enforcement Officer might have been wrong in the 1784 past, might have been wrong 50 times in the past. That 1785 doesn’t change the meaning of that regulation in 1786 accordance with the Supreme Court’s directive for 1787 interpretation of disjunctive conjuncti-, conjunctive use 1788 of the word, uh, ‘or’. What is relevant, all that is 1789 relevant, not subsequent interpretations, not the way we 1790 always do things — all that is relevant is what that 1791 regulation means in accordance with the Supreme 1792 Court’s directive. With regard to legislative intent and 1793 the, uh, statement -- 1794 Chairman MacNeil: Jon, I don’t want to cut you short, but, -- 1795 Atty. Chase: I, I, I’ll be very quick – 1796 Chairman MacNeil: -- but you did go over that – 1797 Atty. Chase: Yeah, well, -- 1798 Chairman MacNeil: -- when you first brought it up, so… 1799 Atty. Chase: I, I, I know and I, I, I – 1800 Chairman MacNeil: Again, if there’s something new, just let us know, but -- 1801 Atty. Chase: -- I think that, I just think this is a p-, a point we can’t 1802 leave hanging, John. Attorney Heller, uh, presented, 1803 uh, what were alleged to be and were exhibits to his 1804 testimony, his affidavit, stating that this is the way the 1805 language was before the 1970 public hearing, this is 1806 what it was afterward as the result, presumably, of 1807 taking that public hearing testimony into consideration. 1808 What I will tell you is that exhibits, although I don’t 1809 think there’s numbers on them yet, unfortunately, but, 1810 uh, exhibits that I borrowed from Agnes, one stating the 1811 proposed regulations for the Town of Montville, July 1812 1970, that the, that the Commission minutes indicate 1813 are the ones that went to the public hearing and the 1814 adopted regulations, effective October 14th, 1970, are 1815 identical. There’s no distinction, Section 3.12 or the 1816 table below or of the table below. They’re identical. 1817 These are the versions that exist on file in Town Clerk’s 1818 office and because, while they are, these excerpts are 1819 exhibits. In other words, the excerpted cover and 1820 regulation itself, your Regulations are law, you can 1821 refer to them, you don’t need them to be in evidence. I 1822 will, in fact, note to the Town Clerk tomorrow morning 1823 that those items which she was very helpful in finding 1824 and digging out for me, may be required by you folks, 1825 but you will find, I’m very confident, that the version 1826 that went to the public hearing and the version that was 1827 intact without change of this regulation, after the 1970 1828 public hearing, did not change. So, I simply disagree 1829 with Attorney Heller’s version of events in that regard. 1830 Um, that is, um, I think really, uh, oh, one other thing 1831 that I submit to you was, perhaps, not accurate. Not 1832 only with respect to prior versions of these regulations, 1833 but the distinction between the situation here today with 1834 this property and that that existed in the Cockerham 1835 case several years ago. Judge Purtill didn’t dwell at 1836 length on this aspect, but one key difference was that 1837 Mr. Bialowans, the property owner there, had 1838 significantly relied on that permit, as evidenced by his 1839 having largely built the house, almost finishing that 1840 house, before the day we just happen to notice standing 1841 here that that permit had expired. There was no such 1842 reliance here. Ground wasn’t even broken. We’re 1843 squarely at the regulation that says that permits expire 1844 within a year unless all work has been, uh, completed 1845 and, of course, we’re squarely, uh, as I said earlier, at 1846 the requirements, uh, themselves, uh, concerning, uh, 1847 the, um, uh, the renewal process as Judge Purtill found 1848 it to be, found it to consist of, based on the prior 1849 testimony of Mr. Sanders. Judge Purtill was very 1850 specific and I’ve given you the example he was 1851 referring to of what a renewed permit is, such as it is. 1852 Okay. Um, yeah, the difference is this, the difference is 1853 also that, not contrary to Attorney Heller’s statement, 1854 that in this instance work has not been commenced, 1855 matter of fact, there’s evidence before you as in the 1856 affidavit of Paul Chase, that the house has been built. 1857 The house has been built upon a permit that not only 1858 expired under the regulations, was not renewed under 1859 the regulations, and was not renewed in accordance 1860 with what Judge Purtill says a renewal is in the Town of 1861 Montville. So, maybe that was a misstatement and I’m 1862 willing to give the benefit of the doubt as I always am, 1863 but, uh, the statement that, in this instance, work has not 1864 been commenced in contrast to the situation of the 1865 Cockerham case is, it, it, it just staggers me based on 1866 the facts that are reflected in the evidence. So, thank 1867 you very much. 1868 Chairman MacNeil: Thank you, Jon. Would anyone else like to speak, uh, 1869 on this application in favor or against? 1870 Atty. Heller: For the record, again, Harry Heller. Uh, start with a 1871 correction, Attorney Chase, on at least two occasions, 1872 referenced this lot as being 11/100ths of an acre, in fact 1873 it is not, it’s about a third of an acre. It’s 13,683 square 1874 feet based upon the plan that was submitted with the 1875 zoning permit application. The question was raised as 1876 to what controls are there on what size lots may be built 1877 on. And Mr. Chairman, I think, your response was 1878 completely accurate. If you look at Section 5.21, which 1879 was the original ordinance, it indicates that lots subject 1880 to the provisions of Section 5.21 shall not be built upon 1881 unless the Health Officer shall certify in writing to the 1882 Zoning Agent as to the adequacy and safety of the 1883 sewage disposal system and water supply. So, the 1884 public health code, as well as zoning, are the limiting 1885 factors and you can’t build on a lot that’s 10 x 10. In 1886 fact, you cannot build on a lot that is very much smaller 1887 than the lot in question because you will not be able to 1888 satisfy the requirements of the public health code. That 1889 is the limiting factor. Um, Attorney Chase indicated 1890 that whether the Zoning Enforcement Officer is wrong 1891 50 times in the past doesn’t matter on determining what 1892 the legislative intent of the Zoning, Planning and 1893 Zoning Commission is. In the abstract, I agree with 1894 that, but the Planning and Zoning Commission interacts 1895 with the Zoning Enforcement Officer on a twice 1896 monthly basis. The Zoning Enforcement Officer 1897 submits a report on a twice monthly basis to the 1898 Planning and Zoning Commission. They have 1899 knowledge of the actions of the Zoning Enforcement 1900 Officer and this wasn’t one Zoning Enforcement 1901 Officer, this was four different Zoning Enforcement 1902 Officers who issued zoning permits for single-family 1903 residences on lots which were both less than the 1904 required lot area in the district and which have less than 1905 the required lot frontage in the district, in several cases 1906 zero lot frontage. 1907 Chairman MacNeil: So, it was a combination in those -- 1908 Atty. Heller: -- combination of the -- 1909 Chairman MacNeil: -- of all of those -- 1910 Atty. Heller: -- of those factors. And, if that was inconsistent with 1911 the legislative intent of the Planning and Zoning 1912 Commission, the Commission would have, one, either 1913 corrected the actions of the Zoning Enforcement 1914 Officer or, two, revised the regulation. The fact that no 1915 action was taken is indicative of the intent of the 1916 Planning and Zoning Commission, going back to 1970, 1917 to provide protection for these kinds of lots. And, 1918 again, thank you. 1919 Chairman MacNeil: Are you still, are you okay still Jon? 1920 Atty. Chase: I am okay. 1921 Chairman MacNeil: Alright, is there anyone else who would like to speak in 1922 favor, in opposition, any questions, comments, before I 1923 entertain a motion to close this public hearing? Hearing 1924 none…Um, I’d like to, um, I’d like to make a motion to 1925 close, um, Application, uh, 213-ZBA-2, um, is there a 1926 second? 1927 Board Member Adams: Second. 1928 Chairman MacNeil: A motion made and a second. All in favor, say aye. 1929 Board Members: Aye. 1930 Chairman MacNeil: Opposed? So moved. It’s closed. Old business. Um, 1931 now, o-, old business, um, I’m going to bring up, um, 1932 application A, uh, Paul E. Chase 213-ZBA-2: An 1933 application for an appeal of the decision of the Zoning 1934 Enforcement Officer for the issuance of a Zoning 1935 Permit to Green Falls Associates, LLC, for a three-1936 bedroom home on the property located at 310 Cherry 1937 Lane, Oakdale, Montville, CT. As shown on 1938 Assessor’s Map 53, Lot 3. Um, I, in order to get discu-, 1939 to get to a discussion on this, um, I’d like to, I, I’ll 1940 make a motion, um, just so we could entertain some 1941 discussion. I’m going to make a motion, um, to deny, 1942 um, this application, um, so, t-, t-, to simply expla-, to 1943 clarify, that would be to uphold, um, the, um, the 1944 issuance of the, uh, the zoning permit that was made by 1945 the ZEO. Um, tha-, tha-, um, having made that motion, 1946 is there a second? 1947 Board Member Adams: Second. 1948 Chairman MacNeil: Motion made and a second. Discussion. Um, I’d like 1949 to start the discussion out with saying, there’s been a lot 1950 of stuff said, a lot of stuff submitted, um, and lot of it 1951 probably has merit. Um, my, before we start to talk or 1952 even consider talking about whether or not, what the 1953 regulations really meant, wa-, was ‘or’ and ‘and’, um, 1954 and all that, that, uh, that interesting, uh, dialogue that 1955 went by, uh, that went before us, and also, um, whether 1956 or not, uh, we can entertain environmental impacts and, 1957 and, um, and this, and these other issues. I think that in 1958 orde-, for us to get to that discussion, we have to 1959 determine whether or not we even need to talk about 1960 that, and that’s whether or not, we, uh, the applicant, 1961 um, submitted the application in time, uh, before the 1962 30-day period had lapsed post notice. So, before we 1963 talk about all this other stuff, we have to decide whether 1964 or not, um, it was a, it was timely, the application came 1965 before us. Not whether or not it was it renewed in time 1966 and all these other things that came before us because, 1967 frankly, um, all of that other stuff after we couldn’t, um, 1968 uh, sift through without our attorneys going through it 1969 and advising us to, you know, because obviously, 1970 there’s a lot of, there’s, you know, we’re talk-, 1971 attorneys are discussing the matter. But, it seems to 1972 me, fairly clear to me, from what I’ve heard and, um, 1973 that this application fell short of the, um, based on the 1974 notification that was put in the paper and the 1975 explanation that I have heard that, clearly, it didn’t, um, 1976 meet the constraints of the appeal. So, it’s my opinion 1977 that we don’t discuss anything further, just to start out, 1978 my opinion is that it, it, it fell short of that and we can, 1979 and rather than talk about whether or not there are 1980 merits beyond that, I don’t think we actually have 1981 reason to do that because either it’s before us properly 1982 or not. That’s where I’m at. 1983 Atty. Carey: Mr. Chairman? 1984 Chairman MacNeil: Go. 1985 Atty. Carey: If I might interject? 1986 Chairman MacNeil: Sure. 1987 Atty. Carey: Um, I think the point you’ve raised is the perpetual 1988 question of (inaudible). I’m not sure, though, that I 1989 would suggest that if the Board were inclined to find 1990 that the application was untimely (inaudible) some 1991 explorations should be made at least to some of these 1992 other issues (inaudible) 1993 Chairman MacNeil: But, -- 1994 Atty. Carey: Frankly, any basis, if there is going to be a denial, any 1995 basis for denial, (inaudible) put in the record. In the 1996 event that, somehow, (inaudible) the Board was wrong 1997 in saying that the application wasn’t filed on time. 1998 Chairman MacNeil: If, let me ask you this, if, I think we’ve been here 1999 before, if we, if the, the Board denied this application 2000 and it was just because it wasn’t timely, we would just 2001 get it back? No? And, then, at that point -- 2002 Atty. Carey: I can’t, I can’t guarantee that that will be -- 2003 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, so, in other words, it could be overturned -- 2004 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 2005 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, I mean, at this point, I mean, that’s, so, in, in, in 2006 the way I’m looking at it is, this is my simple layman’s, 2007 it’s like, we, before we discuss all this other stuff or a-, 2008 or layer on to it, aren’t we saying, well, if, or are, or are 2009 we saying, if we’re wrong, yeah, this. And, maybe, 2010 maybe we would approve it. In other words, if we 2011 thought it was in time, we might find in favor of the 2012 applicant, I don’t know that. 2013 Atty. Carey: Well, I think that would be something to explore. I 2014 mean, if, if you all buy this argument about ‘or’ -- 2015 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, but again, that’s another whole other discussion 2016 that I’m not sure that it’s appropriate for us to have, I’m 2017 trying to ask that, I mean, because it’s -- 2018 Atty. Carey: and, and, and (inaudible) because the applicant 2019 submitted that petition, I think we, I should examine a 2020 couple of things. If that’s a valid petition (inaudible) 2021 contains the kind of information the Statutes and the 2022 case law requires for a valid, formal petition, um, and if 2023 it embraces issues that are within this court’s 2024 jurisdiction with regard to environmental matter, which 2025 at this point, I don’t (inaudible) -- 2026 Chairman MacNeil: I don’t understand, now. 2027 Atty. Carey: I think it would be hard to -- 2028 Chairman MacNeil: You’re the attorney, how does it matter what is bought 2029 before us if we’re not, basically if the application is not 2030 timely, we can’t hear anything. I mean, if it, if it’s not 2031 here you can bring anything you want, even though it’s 2032 valid and it might be a concern, why am I entertaining 2033 anything because that has nothing to do with, you’re not 2034 supposed to be here. We can’t hear you because it’s, 2035 legally, we can’t, so, I mean if I, if we pile on anything 2036 or approve something, it’s like, we’ve got to get past 2037 this first, and that’s, that’s the most simplistic, I mean 2038 I’m trying to keep it, you know, keep the attorney stuff 2039 out of it and try to get to a -- 2040 Atty. Carey: I agree, I agree and, uh, to an extent, and, you know, I 2041 understand that people are not going to be around for 2042 the next meeting and -- 2043 Chairman MacNeil: Well, yeah, again, I don’t want to, I don’t want to 2044 shorten it because of we might have a quorum issue, 2045 you know. I, obviously, want to do it in a timely 2046 manner, but I’m not inclined to go any farther to 2047 entertain anything, in my opinion, because I don’t think 2048 we should be listening to anything if we’re, this 2049 application fails to meet the standar-, or to, to meet the 2050 requirement of us hearing it in the first place. So, it’s 2051 like, kind of like, we’ve heard all this stuff, it’s like we 2052 just ca-, it’s almost would be better if we could have 2053 heard it from both sides and made a decision whether or 2054 not we had to hear the rest of the testimony and if, and 2055 if it was favorable, then we could have went forward 2056 but -- 2057 Atty. Carey: Part of the problem with that (inaudible) we’ve heard 2058 an awful lot of stuff (inaudible) -- 2059 Chairman MacNeil: Right. And, again, we didn’t hear that, about the notice 2060 until later on and then, we, we’re right in the middle of 2061 it. So, I’m inclined to, you know, not, not entertain 2062 anything else other than, uh, to first decide this. 2063 Atty. Carey: There’s a second jurisdictional issue, too. (inaudible) 2064 Attorney Heller raised about the contents of the original 2065 (inaudible). 2066 Chairman MacNeil: Right. 2067 Atty. Carey: Um, in terms of it being (inaudible) and not meeting the 2068 requirements of the Statute. The Statute requires that 2069 these applications (inaudible) a specific statement of the 2070 grounds. So, the fact that this Town has a form that just 2071 has a couple of boxes to check (inaudible) can’t 2072 supersede the Statute. I, I just, I would just say that I 2073 have no desire to (inaudible) but, um, I would just say 2074 that given the amount of stuff that you’ve been (handed 2075 tonight in the second round of this hearing), um, that it 2076 might be prudent to have (inaudible) make a decision 2077 (inaudible) rather than making any decisions tonight 2078 based on (inaudible) jurisdictional issues (inaudible). 2079 Chairman MacNeil: Um, I don’t want to be a cowboy, but I would rather get 2080 this over with tonight. 2081 Board Member Adams: I’m ready to ge-, this, see all this here? It’s irrelevant to 2082 me, this is all, all this stuff that you fed us, I’m not 2083 going to read this. I’m telling you right now. I’m not 2084 going to read it. 2085 Chairman MacNeil: But, just to be fair, if, if -- 2086 Board Member Adams: I’m ready to be a cowboy. I have no problems. 2087 Chairman MacNeil: No, no, no, I know, but, but, I’m, I’m, I’m kidding, but 2088 what I’m saying, but the stuff in here, we obviously ca-, 2089 and it’s interesting for us to have, but our attorney 2090 would advise us on, you know, his opinion – 2091 Board Member Adams: (inaudible) 2092 Chairman MacNeil: So, so, obviously, that, that’s just the name of the, the 2093 course of things. But, again, Mike is trying to, uh, uh, 2094 advi-, um, uh, Attorney Carey’s trying to, you know, 2095 give his, us his advice, that’s why he’s here and -- 2096 Board Member Adams: He’s trying to stop us from getting into trouble. 2097 Chairman MacNeil: Well, yeah. 2098 Atty Carey: Well, I think it would be better to, to let me look 2099 through this stuff. (inaudible) to read through 70 pages 2100 of transcripts from 35 years ago, either. -- 2101 Board Member Adams: I agree. 2102 Atty. Carey: -- but, and, and, and to put together some findings for 2103 you to kick around and then make a decision at your 2104 next meeting, but Mr. Adams isn’t going to be there. 2105 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, he’s not going to be here. 2106 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 2107 Chairman MacNeil: So, let me ask you this, Mike. If, in fact, we feel that, 2108 uh, if the, the rest of the Board members feel that this, 2109 the, uh, the notice was not timely, um, if, in fact, it was 2110 not timely, we have all this other data that is, um, 2111 necessary post us finding that it’s timely. So, now, 2112 what you’re saying is you want to do is look through it 2113 and see the relevance, but does it have any relevance to 2114 whether or not it was timely? 2115 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) No, no. (inaudible) 2116 Chairman MacNeil: Right. And, and, and anything that is submitted. It’s 2117 like, I’m trying to determine whether or not and I, and I 2118 know, I know you’re doing your, your doing your-- 2119 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) on the other hand, as I say no (inaudible) 2120 Chairman MacNeil: Right. 2121 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) came out of nowhere (inaudible) 2122 Chairman MacNeil: Right. 2123 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) I don’t mean that (inaudible). I’m just 2124 saying it was unexpected. I, I just think it wouldn’t hurt 2125 to come back to you next meeting, even if Mr. Adams 2126 isn’t be here, and have, have a motion put together for 2127 you to kick around and deal with (inaudible). 2128 Chairman MacNeil: I think that, um, there’s a petition, in my opinion, you 2129 could see where I’m going, there’s a petition where 2130 either we go forward and wait for you to write 2131 something up, but either, either there’s merit, either the, 2132 either the, um, we’re going to consider that we find that 2133 this was timely and, then, the rest of it’s relevant or we 2134 find it’s not timely. If we find it’s not timely and then 2135 we pile on, if there’s something to defeat it or grant it, 2136 I’m fo-, I think it kind of self-defeats one. I mean, 2137 again, i-, it’s a clear petition in my mind. Not to, uh, try 2138 to override you, but it’s like, okay and I know what’s 2139 going to come, um, is, okay, now, we’ve got four 2140 people next week, and we’re three and it’s time and it’s 2141 extensions and we’re going to be talking in next 2142 December, you know, let the appeals fly, I mean, you 2143 know, I, I -- 2144 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) my advice is what it is and – 2145 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 2146 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 2147 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 2148 Atty. Carey: I advise the Board to (inaudible) 2149 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, thank you. Any other discussions? What do you 2150 guys think? 2151 Board Member Freeman: I think it would be prudent to listen to our attorney. 2152 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 2153 Board Member Aquitante: I second on him. 2154 Chairman MacNeil: How about you Ellen? Ellen? 2155 Board Member Lakowsky: Well, I listen to them both very carefully and they 2156 always present themselves very well and then I have to 2157 think (laughing). 2158 Board Member Freeman: And, I guess I have one question that if we decided to 2159 put it off, we know of one member who’s not going to 2160 be here, who is, it’s mandatory that he be here to make 2161 the -- 2162 Chairman MacNeil: Well, we have, a quorum is four. 2163 Board Member Aquitante: I’ll be here. 2164 Chairman MacNeil: Right. And, well, we know it’s only going to be four 2165 and we all have to be not sick and show up -- 2166 Board Member Freeman: I’ll be here. 2167 Chairman MacNeil: Well, just so you’ll know, um, you know, there also 2168 could be the applicant had some point ha-, ha, has 2169 raised, um, concerns that there be at least five members 2170 present, -- 2171 Board Member Freeman: I remember. 2172 Chairman MacNeil: -- even though we have the right to do four and, we’ll 2173 probably be -- 2174 Board Member Freeman: That was going to be my next question. 2175 Chairman MacNeil: Well, so, I mean, and, again, we can’t, you know, I 2176 think that, you know, that I, um, I, I, I take Mr. Carey’s 2177 advice and, um, I have a difference of opinion and I’m 2178 not an attorney and you guys have a mind of your own, 2179 so if you want to continue it and go from there, we’ll, 2180 what’s that Mike? 2181 Atty. Carey: In another town (inaudible) Zoning Commission 2182 Chairman, (inaudible) chastises me for sticking my 2183 (inaudible) -- 2184 Chairman MacNeil: Well, we, we’re paying you to do that. 2185 Atty. Carey: That’s what I thought, too, but anyways, I was chastised 2186 a couple times. In fact, I was almost, I was basically 2187 told to leave. 2188 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah? 2189 Atty. Carey: Anyways, um, Mr. Adams is not going to be here 2190 February… 2191 Chairman MacNeil: Fifth. 2192 Atty. Carey: Fifth. Um, when are you leaving Mr. Adams? 2193 Board Member Adams: February 1st. See, I’m getting the impression that 2194 you’re going to draw up something that you’re going to 2195 want the Board, hopefully, to go by. That’s what I’m 2196 getting out of the conversation. 2197 Atty. Carey: Yes, sir. 2198 Board Member Adams: So, whether I’m here or not is very irrelevant. 2199 Atty. Carey: Well, except that it’s always -- 2200 Board Member Adams: Am I right? 2201 Atty. Carey: If we have a deliberation (inaudible). 2202 Board Member Freeman: Can we schedule a special meeting? 2203 Atty. Carey: That’s what I was getting at. If we have a meeting, 2204 like, the last week in January and we can just deal with 2205 it then. 2206 Board Member Adams: Just go with the flow. I could, absolutely. 2207 Atty. Carey: Is everyone going to be here? Is anyone going to 2208 Florida or Antarctica? 2209 Board Member Aquitante: Just give me a week notice. 2210 Board Member Freeman: I think we should pick a date, check our personal 2211 calendars and make sure there’s no conflicts. 2212 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, we don’t, obviously the public is welcome to 2213 come, but the public hearing is closed, so-- 2214 Board Member Freeman: I mean, like, like, this meeting, we put on our calendars 2215 and we make sure nothing gets in -- 2216 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) a special meeting, uh, (inaudible) special 2217 meetings (inaudible) and, uh, usually when this sort of 2218 thing comes up, (inaudible) if this room’s available or a 2219 room’s available. 2220 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, well, so we won’t be able to set a date, but we 2221 will and will have to be noticed -- 2222 Atty. Carey: No, we just have to post the agenda for the special 2223 meeting -- 2224 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, well, so many people will have to know. So, I 2225 mean, do we want to put a, I don’t know, I don’t know -2226 - 2227 Board Member Adams: Well, let me, well, why can’t it be put off ‘til March? 2228 And, I’ll tell you why I ask. The house is already built. 2229 Nothing’s going to change. Why can’t we put it off ‘til 2230 March? 2231 Chairman MacNeil: We have a, we also have a time, um, constraint without, 2232 um, that we have to make a decision on and I don’t 2233 know where that falls. 2234 Atty. Carey: I believe it goes into March, sir. 65 days? But, frankly, 2235 I think we’d be better off if we could do it before Mr. 2236 Adams goes (inaudible). 2237 Chairman MacNeil: Can you go in the back room for, like, ten minutes and 2238 figure it out and come back? 2239 Board Member Adams: (laughing) 2240 Chairman MacNeil: I’m just kidding you, Mike. 2241 Board Member Adams: I’m availa, Mike, I’m available anytime so whenever 2242 you guys decide to have the meeting, I’m available. 2243 Board Member Aquitante: Last week of January, January 30th 2244 Atty. Carey: I’m not trying to give anybody a hard time -- 2245 Board Member Freeman: No, no, you’re trying to do what we’re asking you to 2246 do. 2247 Board Member Aquitante: January 29th, when the, that’s the last day of the month. 2248 Board Member Freeman: Is there, is there, how do we find out if this room is 2249 available on the 29th? 2250 Atty. Carey: Well, it doesn’t have to be in this room. 2251 Unknown Board Member: It could be at the Brown Derby! 2252 (laughing) 2253 Unknown Board Member: Happy hour. 2254 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 2255 Board Member Freeman: January the 29th, the last Wednesday of the month. 2256 Chairman MacNeil: Um -- 2257 Board Member Lakowsky: Does anybody have a calendar? 2258 Chairman MacNeil: I mean, you know what? You want to set it tentatively 2259 for the, since we do Wednesdays, you want to set it 2260 tentatively for the 29th? 2261 Board Member Adams: No. I have 20 steak dinners to cook. 2262 Chiarman MacNeil: Okay. 2263 Board Member Lakowsky: Well, there’s going to be somebody no matter what -- 2264 Unknown Board Member: For us? 2265 Board Member Adams: That could be arranged! 2266 Chairman MacNeil: How about the, how about the 22nd? Does that give you 2267 enough time, Mike? 2268 Board Member Lakowsky: What day is it? 2269 Board Member Freeman: Wednesday. 2270 Chairman MacNeil: It’s a Wednesday. It’s three weeks from t-, uh, not 2271 three weeks, it’s two weeks from today. 2272 Atty. Carey: The 22nd will be fine. 2273 Chairman MacNeil: Does that work for everybody else? 2274 Board Member Freeman: I just have to double-check, but I think so. 2275 Chairman MacNeil: Okay. 2276 Board Member Aquitante: Same time? 2277 Atty. Carey: 1/20-, 1/22? 2278 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, 1/22 at seven, and, hopefully, we’ll find out what 2279 room, but it’ll have to be… 2280 Board Member Adams: We’ll just all meet up here and then we’ll take it from 2281 there. 2282 Atty. Carey No, no, they’ll know, they’ll post it on the agenda, 2283 they’ll post a notice… 2284 Unknown Board Member: Good. Sounds Good. 2285 Chairman MacNeil: Alright. Then, I’d like to make a motion that we, um, 2286 continue this discussion until, uh, special meeting on 2287 January the 22nd at seven p.m. at a room to be 2288 determined, hopefully this one, is there a second? 2289 Board Member Aquitante: Second. 2290 Board Member Freeman: Second. 2291 Chairman MacNeil: Motion made and a second. All in favor? 2292 Board Members: Aye. 2293 Chairman MacNeil: Opposed? 2294 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 2295 Chairman MacNeil: 24th? 2296 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) 2297 Chairman MacNeil: We don’t have to be there, right? 2298 Board Member Freeman: (inaudible) 2299 Chairman MacNeil: Yeah, we’re not done yet. 2300 Board Member Freeman: (inaudible) 2301 Chairman MacNeil: Well, these, these guys can go. 2302 Board Member Freeman: Okay. 2303 Chairman MacNeil: We’re still up here. Okay, um, now, -- 2304 Atty. Carey: (inaudible) Thank you. 2305 Board Members: Thank you, Mike. 2306 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, going on to, um, on to item six, um, has e-, I’ll 2307 make a motion, has everybody reviewed or anybody 2308 reviewed the, um, the minutes from December 11th, 20 2309 -- 2310 Board Member Freeman: I have and they look correct to me. 2311 Chairman MacNeil: So, do you want to make a motion to, uh, approve? 2312 Board Member Freeman: I make a motion to approve. 2313 Chairman MacNeil: Is there a second? 2314 Board Member Adams: Second. 2315 Chairman MacNeil: All in favor, say aye? 2316 Board Members: Aye. 2317 Chairman MacNeil: Opposed? Okay, any communications, Tom? 2318 ZEO Mr. Sanders: No. 2319 Chairman MacNeil: Um, any other, uh, business? 2320 ZEO Mr. Sanders: No, sir. 2321 Chairman MacNeil: Okay, I make a motion to adjourn. Is there a second? 2322 Board Member Aquitante: Second. 2323 Chairman MacNeil: Motion made and second. All in favor? 2324 Board Members: Aye. 2325 Chairman MacNeil: Opposed? So moved. 2326